Overcrowding and the death of dancing

[ska invita]

The other night I went to a dream line up DnB night (Exit Records 10th bday) at Fire in Vauxhall and after slugging it out for 2 hours was forced to leave before the night had barely got going because it was overcrowded. No room to dance and near impossible to move around the venue. Its left me very pissed off, especially after an insincere and deflective apology from Exit themselves (D-Bridge in particular). Its left me not wanting to go out again (reading about the night online others feel similarly) and there are two parties on the horizon that I know will draw a capacity crowd and right now I don't want to go to either of them because of it.

Although this was an extreme example of mismanagement and possibly greed, its not totally isolated, and i can think of about 5 cases in the last year where ive been highly uncomfortable in a venue - and im lucky in that im fairly tall - its even worse for shorter women, and many of my female friends are even more reticent about going out these days.

On another forum one of the longest threads of recent years was about the death of dancing. In the past Djs were hard to spot in the club and all the action was on the dancefloor. People would dance with each other, make eye contact and have meaningful dancefloor moments - increasingly rare occurrence IME particularly in large commercial clubs.

There are different reasons for why things have changed, but I think having room to dance is one of them. I wonder if the huge growth in festivals has changed dance music culture. If you think this is normal (never mind fun)...

Then the idea of being pushed up shoulder to shoulder on a dancefloor is nothing unusual.

Even in venues that haven't breached their official capacities the room and potential to dance is often hugely limited. I cant help but feel this is because these places exist solely to take as much money as possible (overpriced drinks are insanely priced and standard now), and the notions of putting on a production for a night, creating an ambience, are a very distant memory.

Any thoughts?

 

[lizzieloo]

Can't see yer pic

 

[el-ahrairah]

yeah, it#s shit if you can't have a proper dance. one of the reasons i stopped going to clubs.

 

[stuff_it]

It can be difficult to manage this though, if there are a few big acts even in a multi-room venue it's hard to stop everyone running in to see those acts.

It's not normal or good, but it's not always mismanagement unless you think (for example) that a three room venue should only let in enough customers to fill one room to capacity just in case. If it's like that everywhere then yeah it's mismanagement and potentially dangerous but that's not the only cause.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I don't go out as much as I used to but I do agree. I've been to a couple of things at Corsica Studios which have had great line ups but you can't move in there, in the main room especially. You certainly can't dance properly and I tend to end up giving up altogether and finding some corner in a back room.

The club I do still go to is Bangface at the Electrowerkz and a big part of the reason I still enjoy that is that you can generally find some space to dance in there.

 

[gentlegreen]

I once left before a night began.
It was at the Thekla (a boat moored in Bristol harbour)
Even before it started we were packed like sardines.
I left for my own safety - I really should have reported it to the council.

 

[TitanSound]

This is the whole reason I never went to a club on NYE. But now it's standard occurrence.

Even bars I used to go to get like this because they started to focus on cocktails. So, 10 minutes waiting at the bar just so one person can get 4 cocktails is taking the piss. If you want to serve cocktails, have table service or some shit with a dedicated mixer. Having to wait an eternity for a couple of pints or bottles is ridiculous.

 

[ska invita]

Can't see yer pic

woops. found a different pic

 

[lizzieloo]

Can't see yer pic

can now

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I wonder if the huge growth in festivals has changed dance music culture. If you think this is normal (never mind fun)...


Then the idea of being pushed up shoulder to shoulder on a dancefloor is nothing unusual.

I don't know if it's down to festivals but there does definitely seem like more of a 'gig' type approach a lot of the time. Cram everyone in, facing towards the stage.

 

[ska invita]

I don't know if it's down to festivals but there does definitely seem like more of a 'gig' type approach a lot of the time. Cram everyone in, facing towards the stage.

this is it and ive had it up to here with it. a proper dub night have traditionally been a lot better for this, but as dub nights start to move into more commercial venues its no longer the case, and punters who have grown up with it always being the case have a very different conception of moving into what i would consider your personal space.

 

[stuff_it]

this is it and ive had it up to here with it. a proper dub night have traditionally been a lot better for this, but as dub nights start to move into more commercial venues its no longer the case, and punters who have grown up with it always being the case have a very different conception of moving into what i would consider your personal space.

Fucking slimy blokes trying to sleaze up against your arse, not even trying to pretend to be grinding - just blates copping a feel.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

this is it and ive had it up to here with it. a proper dub night have traditionally been a lot better for this, but as dub nights start to move into more commercial venues its no longer the case, and punters who have grown up with it always being the case have a very different conception of moving into what i would consider your personal space.

It's not really a personal space thing for me. I sometimes go to gigs as well and if I go to see a metal band then a crush down the front is part of it. It's just not what I want if I'm going raving.

 

[ska invita]

It can be difficult to manage this though, if there are a few big acts even in a multi-room venue it's hard to stop everyone running in to see those acts.

It's not normal or good, but it's not always mismanagement unless you think (for example) that a three room venue should only let in enough customers to fill one room to capacity just in case. If it's like that everywhere then yeah it's mismanagement and potentially dangerous but that's not the only cause.

you're right - in the case of this Exit/Fire thing though there wasnt any room anywhere. Also as an aside an unintended consequence is that there were lots of reports of people getting things stolen from their pockets in the scrum.

 

[ska invita]

Fucking slimy blokes trying to sleaze up against your arse, not even trying to pretend to be grinding - just blates copping a feel.

yes - have heard this increasingly - Fabric cropping up more than once in this regard

 

[ska invita]

It's not really a personal space thing for me. I sometimes go to gigs as well and if I go to see a metal band then a crush down the front is part of it. It's just not what I want if I'm going raving.

agreed

 

[TitanSound]

yes - have heard this increasingly - Fabric cropping up more than once in this regard

Totally. A mates wife and a couple of her friends were there a few weeks ago and they were getting a lot of hassle.

 

[dessiato]

Then the idea of being pushed up shoulder to shoulder on a dancefloor is nothing unusual.

Even in venues that haven't breached their official capacities the room and potential to dance is often hugely limited. I cant help but feel this is because these places exist solely to take as much money as possible (overpriced drinks are insanely priced and standard now), and the notions of putting on a production for a night, creating an ambience, are a very distant memory.

Any thoughts?

It's called "getting old".

 

[ska invita]

It's called "getting old".

no really its not, it's a change in dance culture, and i can still deal with it happily enough on occasion, such as carnival, it just seems to have become the norm each and every time.

 

[ska invita]

though i am getting old and crotchety

 

[stuff_it]

no really its not, it's a change in dance culture, and i can still deal with it happily enough on occasion, such as carnival.

Like I said I don't mind someone grinding up against me if I'm dancing, but I take massive exception to someone slithering up behind me and trying to tickle my arse with their dick while they pretend their attention is elsewhere. Especially if I then tell them to back the fuck off and they come back again and again. It's come to threats of blows before.

 

[ska invita]

its definitely an issue and you're not alone stuffy

 

[stuff_it]

And no, not 'that sort' of blow.

I don't want to feel I have to go about repeatedly threatening 20-year-olds with physical violence when I go out.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I can't really afford to go to clubs these days with what they charge for drinks, but I do hate overcrowded venues. And I'm a big lad who can stomp through a crowd pretty easily if I want to, it must be a seriously grim experience for smaller folk.

 

[ska invita]

. And I'm a big lad who can stomp through a crowd pretty easily if I want to, it must be a seriously grim experience for smaller folk.

...particularly women - theres a perfect storm of crowded venues in which tall males thrive, mixed with music that is increasingly 'macho' and hard, with less proper dancing and more inappropriate-to-put-it-mildly groping, leading to increasingly male dancefloors.... what kind of a scene is that?

 

[Badgers]

...particularly women - theres a perfect storm of crowded venues in which tall males thrive, mixed with music that is increasingly 'macho' and hard, with less proper dancing and more inappropriate-to-put-it-mildly groping, leading to increasingly male dancefloors.... what kind of a scene is that?

Sexism eh?

 

[editor]

I've never enjoyed being packed into venues so tightly that you inevitably end up with half of your pint on the floor and half of someone else's pint down your back. It's fine if you're in the mosh pit, but a pain in the arse when a trip to the bar becomes a major mission.

 

[ska invita]

an article by Terry Farley that did the rounds last year:

When did the dancing stop?
Yesterday i watched previously unseen footage of the final night at the Legendary Paradise Garage , what struck me was the fact the film directors focus was not on the Dj booth and the DJ but the dance floor and its wonderful array of characters , dancers and freaks who were the focus of the night . When you realise the DJ concerned was Larry Levan it really does show just how important the crowd were to club culture . While we used to leave parties with our clothes ringing wet with sweat now we leave with a IPhone full of pics of some DJ at best putting on a few CDS or playing off a laptop at worse acting like a circus seal spending more time on egging crowd reactions that working the music .

When did we stop dancing , when did the DJ become more important than the crowd ? . In London’s fledging clubbing scenes of the 70s and early 80s the crowd went to the clubs and parties where the best dancers and In crowd went the DJ was almost a after thought – as long as he ( there really wasn’t’ a ‘she ‘ back then in DJ terms )played what the dancers demanded .
When did we start watching a DJ instead of dancing with our mates , why do we put up with idiotic people taking up the floor who are filming the DJ ,why is the best dance floors now being cut to ribbons to provide extra table space for naff VIP’s ( Pacha in Ibiza hang your head in shame ) ,people with more money than taste and who in some extreme situations in the US have had DJs thrown off the decks because they did not like the music .

Dancing is now reduced to a crowd reacting to a big breakdown or a simple shuffle with a raised hand every now n then – When did we all stop dancing ?

There is a simple solution to this cheese fest of crowds standing face on to the booth as if its a concert not a party that they are supposed to be a equal partner in the madness not a onlooker and that is to stick the DJ booth on the floor . Panorama Bar does it as do many of the cooler London House music parties such as Secretsundaze . You still get the whoppers with Iphones and back pack’s surrounding the decks but by and large as if by magic the rest of the crowd suddenly start dancing , yes dancing as opposed to raising a hand during a breakdown or pointing back at the seal / DJ .

What people have to realise is THEY are the stars , the heroes of club culture not the DJ . Its that magical moment when you look around and everyones smiling and locked into the groove that makes a great House party , where you make life long friends and get a passion for a music that can last decades .
Start dancing again , turn your back on the DJ and dance with your crew .. the good DJ’s will honestly take it as the ultimate compliment .

 

[ska invita]

another issue is brightness/darkness - often respected at roots dances in a one-bulb style! Many clubs are completely overlit and its much harder to lose yourself in the music as a result. Im certain the brightness is a security issue, so the more mainstream the venue the brighter it is

 

[editor]

Start dancing again , turn your back on the DJ and dance with your crew .. the good DJ’s will honestly take it as the ultimate compliment .

Happily, that's exactly what happens at the Albert, and that's how I like it.

I hate it when I've done DJ gigs and I've been stuck up on some stupid podium.