London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Livingstone is just trying to map European liberalism onto an alien culture many like to pretend follows a similar tradition.
Osama bin Laden killed by US forces in Pakistan
- Thread starter Spymaster
- Start date
I believe he's dead. But beyond that everything is treated with a raised eyebrow.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Someone's a fan of 9gag?
dylans
overlord of all acorns
There are a number of possibilities. One thing is for sure. Elements of the pakistani state protected senior Al Qaeda figures at the highest levels. This is beyond doubt. There is simply no way Bin Laden could have been living in that compound without the knowledge and protection of the ISI. no way at all.
As for the rest, we can as yet only speculate. It is possible that the US found him themselves and operated without the knowledge of Pakistan but more likely is that the intelligence was given by the ISI. My feeling is that they have begun to tire of the destablilising effect of the Afghan war on Pakistan and they have done a cost/benefit assessment and decided the price of protecting him wasn't worth the cost. Drone attacks on Pakistan are deeply unpopular in the country and perhaps they decided they want to end the hunt. This is pure speculation and we may find that the backlash against Pakistan for hiding him may be quite damaging to the country, and that must have been something they knew would happen. So perhaps they didn't tell the US at all. We just don't know.
One thing however, to believe that Pakistan were unaware of the op we must believe that the black hawk helicopters that entered the country did so by completely avoiding Pakistan air defences (air defences supplied by the US and which are thus probably quite sophisticated) It is possible of course but I find it hard to believe the US would risk alerting the Pakistan air defences without clearing an air corridor first.
The timing is suspect. General David Petraeus chief architect of the US counter insurgency operation has just been moved to the CIA and all indications are that Obama will use this killing in order to declare victory and to drastically reduce troop numbers in Afghanistan. (i have written more about this on the other thread) We know that this location has been under surveillance for some months and we also know that intelligence learned that the builiding was owned by senior Al Qaeda member as long as a year ago. This tells me that the US may have had knowledge of Bin Laden's location for some time and the decision to move now is politically motivated. We must admit, this, and a withdrawal from Afghanistan, does Obama's election prospects no harm at all.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Now the loons are saying that an internal coup in the white house forced Obama's hand:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...lear."&pbx=1&fp=1&cad=b&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.
X 100
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...lear."&pbx=1&fp=1&cad=b&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.
X 100Now the loons are saying that an internal coup in the white house forced Obama's hand:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...lear."&pbx=1&fp=1&cad=b&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.
Further proof that conspiracy theories are all, at least on some level, an expression of wishful thinking.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Which reminds me, I heard some chap on LBC yesterday claiming that 9/11 was an inside Govt demolition job. The presenter was very... patient.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Now the loons are saying that an internal coup in the white house forced Obama's hand:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...lear."&pbx=1&fp=1&cad=b&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.
Well, the teabaggers have got to come up with some kind of line like that haven't they?
Pretty much obligatory given the way Obama's people are using this to twist their dicks.
see e.g.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Now the loons are saying that an internal coup in the white house forced Obama's hand:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...lear."&pbx=1&fp=1&cad=b&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.
Nevermind that Bush shut down the bin laden dedicated intelligence gathering desk during the first year of his second term.
Superdupastupor
fun to funky
Has this been covered-
where did they get the DNA sample to compare to the sample from the dead body for "conformation"
did they have a DNA sample of his on file before he became the worlds most wanted man
where did they get the DNA sample to compare to the sample from the dead body for "conformation"
did they have a DNA sample of his on file before he became the worlds most wanted man
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Has this been covered-
where did they get the DNA sample to compare to the sample from the dead body for "conformation"
did they have a DNA sample of his on file before he became the worlds most wanted man
They have his sisters brain. They got his from him.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Has this been covered-
where did they get the DNA sample to compare to the sample from the dead body for "conformation"
did they have a DNA sample of his on file before he became the worlds most wanted man
The early press report I read about this suggested that they had used DNA samples from close family members.
Superdupastupor
fun to funky
fairy enuff
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Has this been covered-
where did they get the DNA sample to compare to the sample from the dead body for "conformation"
did they have a DNA sample of his on file before he became the worlds most wanted man
Getting DNA from bin Laden family members shouldn't be difficult considering the Bush family has been buds with them for several generations.
Corax
Luke 5:16
I hate it when people blame the government for the work of zionists.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
The "he sleeps with the fishes" thing resonates in that familiar gangster way.
In the absence of the body, it seems the property itself is going to be number one on the Osama Tour.
In the absence of the body, it seems the property itself is going to be number one on the Osama Tour.
Riklet
procrastinación
"Children would kick balls over Osama bin Laden's garden wall and never get them back. If a ball went into Bin Laden's compound the children would not be allowed to get it." - The Sun.
What a 'orrible monster. If they'd got Mossad on the case, they probably could have got him with some booby-trapped explosive footballs. He probably didn't buy a defuse kit...
What a 'orrible monster. If they'd got Mossad on the case, they probably could have got him with some booby-trapped explosive footballs. He probably didn't buy a defuse kit...
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
The idea that they did a full DNA check within a few hours from a relatively remote area of Pakistan comes under the "bollocks" category as well in my mind, anyway.
Gingerman
Is a great bunch of lads.....
Well that's me convinced of his evilness
dylans
overlord of all acorns
They obviously flew the body to Afghanistan and did a full autopsy before dumping him in the sea.
claphamboy
The wheels on the bus go round and round....
They didn't shoot everyone, the majority in the compound survived without being shot, which suggests they were not just indiscriminately shooting at everything that moved.
I read some reports saying the preliminarily DNA check was carried out at an American base in Afghanistan, and this resulted in the comment that they were 99.9% sure they had got the right man.
From my understanding preliminarily DNA checks can be done fairly quickly, but a fuller DNA check can take somewhat longer.
Yup thats apparently exactly what happened. I guess they've got a pretty sophisticated set up in Afghanistan now that they've been out there so long.
claphamboy
The wheels on the bus go round and round....
I saw a report that suggested they had intended to grab everyone from the compound but after one of the black hawk thingies failed they just left the other people there.
Corax
Luke 5:16
Plus he would have certainly been tortured if they hadn't killed him. They revel in doing it to peasant farm-boys, they would have had a field day with Bin Laden.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
in fact, they gave them money in lieu of the ball back. cue ker-ching! for the most entrepreneurial of afghan munchkins....
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Cindy Sheehan doesn't think this is all it appears to be.
Not sure what to make of this one. I saw her speak in Dublin last year and she seemed a fairly sane and rational type.
Not sure what to make of this one. I saw her speak in Dublin last year and she seemed a fairly sane and rational type.
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