Old fogey opinions on modern popular music amnesty

[krtek a houby]

The sort of thing pushed by 6 Music DJs who are well into their 50s and 60s.

Possibly, but it's not too shabby. Reminded a bit of Sultans of Ping or Wedding Present.

 

[ska invita]

Morning rambling: a problem faced by pop is that short of a new music technology being created everything has pretty much been done, and its a market that thrives on novelty. Music has its limits with novelty and theres a point where tradition takes over from novelty. Tradition (such as 60 years worth of reggae in varying forms for example) isn't a problem for people who love the tradition, but it is a problem for those looking for a novelty to sell and consumers to buy.

 

[mojo pixy]

There's only about 10 songs released in the last 15 years or so

...the same 10 songs, re-recorded with a new vocal every 4.2 years. Possibly remixed, slowed down, or acoustified for extra novelty points. And get a mate to rap on it.

 

[Cloo]

For me it's not so much that I feel disappointed for not liking chart music of today. That's entirely understandable at age 40. It's more that there's nothing subversive or political going on and being reflected back through the charts. It's so generic and tame now like it's been run through some government approved committee. It's just such a let down.

I've been reading through these fascinating discussion articles about subculture, as recommended by ska invita on another thread The Death Of Subculture part 1: the changing role of subculture in 21st century Britain - Gravity Global

Still haven't read them all, but there's some really insightful comments in them. One is that, because of internet/social media, fashion and music are no longer the 'voice of the generation'. Essentially, the Generation is its own voice through social media, it doesn't need fashion and music to do that for them anymore.

I realised it's also telling that my teenager doesn't really think in terms of scenes, more 'aesthetics', so the goth or cottagecore or dark academia etc aesthetic is a way of dressing but it's not actually linked to your taste in music, hobbies etc. So cottagecore may be all about dressing Laura Ashley style but I haven't seen any particular suggestion that it's supposed to come with liking folk music, jam making and walks in the countryside. It's just a look you like. Similarly, music has become less partisan - if you like a track, you like a track and you don't care so much what the genre is, which is some ways is good in terms of open-mindedness, but some ways means you have less attachment to it, I feel, like it becomes background and you don't really have any strong feelings about it, maybe? I'm not sure one can have a passion about just as song that doesn't feel attached to an artist or their whole ouvre or a scene?

 

[Riklet]

They played Island Boy on repeat.. and various annoying remixes for just about a whole day recently. Oh my God.

 

[killer b]

Morning rambling: a problem faced by pop is that short of a new music technology being created everything has pretty much been done, and its a market that thrives on novelty. Music has its limits with novelty and theres a point where tradition takes over from novelty. Tradition (such as 60 years worth of reggae in varying forms for example) isn't a problem for people who love the tradition, but it is a problem for those looking for a novelty to sell and consumers to buy.

There's a whole world of novelty out there though, even if we've run out of road with western pop forms. If technology drives innovation, then I think the fact that technology has - still very recently - made it possible for us to instantly find out what's hot in Uganda or Vietnam or wherever is likely to be the big driver for innovation in pop over the next few years.

 

[skyscraper101]

I've been reading through these fascinating discussion articles about subculture, as recommended by ska invita on another thread The Death Of Subculture part 1: the changing role of subculture in 21st century Britain - Gravity Global

Still haven't read them all, but there's some really insightful comments in them. One is that, because of internet/social media, fashion and music are no longer the 'voice of the generation'. Essentially, the Generation is its own voice through social media, it doesn't need fashion and music to do that for them anymore.

I realised it's also telling that my teenager doesn't really think in terms of scenes, more 'aesthetics', so the goth or cottagecore or dark academia etc aesthetic is a way of dressing but it's not actually linked to your taste in music, hobbies etc. So cottagecore may be all about dressing Laura Ashley style but I haven't seen any particular suggestion that it's supposed to come with liking folk music, jam making and walks in the countryside. It's just a look you like. Similarly, music has become less partisan - if you like a track, you like a track and you don't care so much what the genre is, which is some ways is good in terms of open-mindedness, but some ways means you have less attachment to it, I feel, like it becomes background and you don't really have any strong feelings about it, maybe? I'm not sure one can have a passion about just as song that doesn't feel attached to an artist or their whole ouvre or a scene?

It's an interesting discussion. Perhaps I find it most disappointing that - for those of us of parenting age - while we had our 'scene,' and it was commonly associated with our look, and our music, and our identity etc. there might also have been some expectation that our kids will also have also had their own scene/look/music and that would've given them a sense of identity, and feeling of independence and hopefully even some political leanings for the better.

And yet also, maybe is was just naïve to think that subculture and musical genres would always evolve the way they have for decades in an age of tik tok and other social media. But I do like to think there is a world where all of that can coexist, not least because I remember fondly how subculture helped forge my identity, and that seemed to harmonize everything from music, fashion and politics all into one. And ultimately that would feed into the chart music of the day so turning on Top Of The Pops meant you really did get a great mix of hip hop, rock, dance, pop, and whatever other new thing was bleeding through at the time.

I asked my 13 year old nephew a few months ago what music he liked, and he seemed completely at a loss as what to say. Eventually just saying that he sometimes puts on 'spotify playlists and stuff.' When I asked what radio station he likes, he couldn't even name one. And then I thought, given what's currently on offer - would I have probably had the same response if I was born in 2008? Who knows. Glad I wasn't though.

Perhaps the new punk or new acid house isn't even to be found in music at all. Perhaps Greta Thurnberg is more punk than anything I'll find in the charts. Perhaps I'm just showing my age and talking utter bollocks. I do know though that I want the youth of today to get the same opportunity to feel that same sense of belonging that I had. And I just worry that there's nothing there but generic mumble rap and tik tok memes now.

</grandad>

 

[killer b]

Where are you getting the idea that kids aren't political skyscraper101 ? IME kids - not just my own - are way, way more politically aware than we all were.

 

[skyscraper101]

Where are you getting the idea that kids aren't political skyscraper101 ? IME kids - not just my own - are way, way more politically aware than we all were.

I'm not saying they aren't - I'm saying that chart music isn't obviously reflecting it.

 

[killer b]

I'm not saying they aren't - I'm saying that chart music isn't obviously reflecting it.

did it ever?

 

[killer b]

that said, try and tell me this isn't political

 

[klang]

I'm really undecided, it is not exactly enjoyable to listen to but it is definitely out there and unique.

It is just a music school novelty experiment rather than any kind of new direction though, for sure.

I like it, and so does the toddler.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Perhaps the new punk or new acid house isn't even to be found in music at all. Perhaps Greta Thurnberg is more punk than anything I'll find in the charts. Perhaps I'm just showing my age and talking utter bollocks. I do know though that I want the youth of today to get the same opportunity to feel that same sense of belonging that I had. And I just worry that there's nothing there but generic mumble rap and tik tok memes now.

I get what you're saying. On the other hand though if I look back on teenage me who thought anything that wasn't heavy metal was rubbish (and I was pretty picky within that tbh), I'm not sure that was entirely positive.

 

[skyscraper101]

I get what you're saying. On the other hand though if I look back on teenage me who thought anything that wasn't heavy metal was rubbish (and I was pretty picky within that tbh), I'm not sure that was entirely positive.

I was like that for a while. And then I changed and started to like other stuff. But at the time it felt great to have found 'my tribe' and I'm still very fond of those metal bands and those years I obsessed over them.

 

[pinkmonkey]

I've been reading through these fascinating discussion articles about subculture, as recommended by ska invita on another thread The Death Of Subculture part 1: the changing role of subculture in 21st century Britain - Gravity Global

Still haven't read them all, but there's some really insightful comments in them. One is that, because of internet/social media, fashion and music are no longer the 'voice of the generation'. Essentially, the Generation is its own voice through social media, it doesn't need fashion and music to do that for them anymore.

I realised it's also telling that my teenager doesn't really think in terms of scenes, more 'aesthetics', so the goth or cottagecore or dark academia etc aesthetic is a way of dressing but it's not actually linked to your taste in music, hobbies etc. So cottagecore may be all about dressing Laura Ashley style but I haven't seen any particular suggestion that it's supposed to come with liking folk music, jam making and walks in the countryside. It's just a look you like. Similarly, music has become less partisan - if you like a track, you like a track and you don't care so much what the genre is, which is some ways is good in terms of open-mindedness, but some ways means you have less attachment to it, I feel, like it becomes background and you don't really have any strong feelings about it, maybe? I'm not sure one can have a passion about just as song that doesn't feel attached to an artist or their whole ouvre or a scene?

Fashion has gone the same way (thank God) it's more about a 'look' than everyone wearing a mini skirt because its in. Almost all my clients now have a clear idea of what they want to do and that doesn't include looking at what the runways say.

 

[killer b]

Right now I'm looking back at the records released this year and thinking what a great year it's been for music - just like every other year tbf - threads like this just feel really bizarre in that context.

The pop charts aren't really relevant in the same way they were as a record of popular culture - the monolithic institutions that used to dominate no longer have the power they did or don't exist at all, and the new monoliths - spotify, youtube etc - offer a much more personalised mix of things, so pop culture is much broader and more atomised than it was. It's different, but I don't think it's actually worse - maybe the opportunity for massive cultural movements like punk and acid house are more limited now, but then, they were always more limited than those involved in them like to think...

 

[spitfire]

Check out BBC6, it has loads of new music that the kids love.

What are you lot laughing at?

Get with it, all the latest bangers, zonkers and smashers from the funkiest gang in town.

I guess you're all too old to understand. #sadtimes

 

[killer b]

even if we've run out of road with western pop forms

(I'm unconvinced we have run out of road btw - but consider the most obvious recent technological innovation in pop music - overdriven autotune - and how much you all hate it. I expect you'll hate whatever comes next too)

 

[William of Walworth]

This thread is fascinating , but definitely not really for me.

Given that my next (significant**) live gig will be Madness (supported by Squeeze! ) at the Manchester Arena on 11th December ..... and also, I recently turned 59
[Bet you there'll be a few young people there anyway, along with their grandparents ]

**Insignificant gigs I get to in Swansea tend to be skilled and longstanding local cover bands or folk bands -- there are few venues for a city this large, and touring bands (large or small) rarely come as far West in Wales as this, so musicians who live round here have had plenty of time to get good!

I was watching/enjoying a bunch of musicians in the pub last night -- random individuals and groups, playing on a walk up and sing/play basis, couple of songs each maybe (what the hell is that kind of session called?? ), and most of the stuff they were playing were covers, sixties to nineties .......

I think I'd better find my music fun in other threads --- I did like some of the YouTube things people have put up earlier up, though

 

[Pickman's model]

This thread is fascinating , but definitely not really for me.

Given that my next (significant**) live gig will be Madness (supported by Squeeze! ) at the Manchester Arena on 11th December ..... and also, I recently turned 59
[Bet you there'll be a few young people there anyway, along with their grandparents ]

**Insignificant gigs I get to in Swansea tend to be skilled and longstanding local cover bands or folk bands -- there are few venues for a city this large, and touring bands (large or small) rarely come as far West in Wales as this, so musicians who live round here have had plenty of time to get good!

I was watching/enjoying a bunch of musicians in the pub last night -- random individuals and groups, playing on a walk up and sing/play basis, couple of songs each maybe (what the hell is that kind of session called?? ), and most of the stuff they were playing were covers, sixties to nineties .......

I think I'd better find my music fun in other threads --- I did like some of the YouTube things people have put up earlier up, though

Line ups you could only dream of in the 80s

 

[Johnny Vodka]

My ~14 year old nephew has just 'discovered' Oasis, so the options for kids must be really bad.

 

[Voley]

This thread is fascinating , but definitely not really for me.

Given that my next (significant**) live gig will be Madness (supported by Squeeze! ) at the Manchester Arena on 11th December ..... and also, I recently turned 59
[Bet you there'll be a few young people there anyway, along with their grandparents ]

**Insignificant gigs I get to in Swansea tend to be skilled and longstanding local cover bands or folk bands -- there are few venues for a city this large, and touring bands (large or small) rarely come as far West in Wales as this, so musicians who live round here have had plenty of time to get good!

I was watching/enjoying a bunch of musicians in the pub last night -- random individuals and groups, playing on a walk up and sing/play basis, couple of songs each maybe (what the hell is that kind of session called?? ), and most of the stuff they were playing were covers, sixties to nineties .......

I think I'd better find my music fun in other threads --- I did like some of the YouTube things people have put up earlier up, though

Dunno if he'd still agree with me but last time I asked, Cloo 's lad's favourite band was Madness, Will. Baggy Trousers followed by House Of Fun are their best songs according to him. Think he's right, too.

Down with the kids, thats what we are, mate.

 

[skyscraper101]

Haha I'm going to Madness too in a few weeks

 

[krtek a houby]

Had a complete heartgasm when 6 played Thomas Dolby's Airwaves the other day.

 

[William of Walworth]

Dunno if he'd still agree with me but last time I asked, Cloo 's lad's favourite band was Madness, Will. Baggy Trousers followed by House Of Fun are their best songs according to him. Think he's right, too.

Down with the kids, thats what we are, mate.

 

[William of Walworth]

Festivals though -- are they also just (or mostly) about us 'veterans', 'these days'??!

One for later, probably best on another thread.

 

[killer b]

Festivals though -- are they also just (or mostly) about us 'veterans', 'these days'??!

not at all - you can tell which ones are for the kids though: they're the ones which every year there's dickheads posting lineups from the year they were 18 in comparison to this year's lineup and asking what happened to music/the kids??

 

[killer b]

(this is most obvious with Reading/Leeds)

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

 

[mojo pixy]

FTR there's tonnes of new music I love, just not in the realm of pop music. And I hated pop music when I was 14 too, so it's not like this is an old fogey thing for me. It's more of an antisocial weirdo thing.