New Crossrail / Elizabeth line tube map released

[hash tag]

London doesn't compete locally, there is no need. It does compete internationally and theres the rub...

 

[Crispy]

The stations aren't particularly lavish in terms of materials or design flourishes. They're just very big. The money is all in the tunneling, services, trains and signalling.

 

[hash tag]

The stats must be epic...hundreds of miles of electric cables, a fair few miles of track, all the escalators....it would seem never endless.
why so far behind, I wonder? Because they were over optimistic in time scales, had more issues than expected, suppliers, corillion....

 

[cupid_stunt]

It's all going so well, isn't?

The crisis-hit line, which should have been opened by the Queen last December, is already £2.8 billion over budget and at least a year behind schedule.
The Commons public accounts committee today said it was “not convinced” the trains would run under central London next year as hoped, or that the extra funds would be enough to finish it.

Committee chairwoman Meg Hillier told the Standard: “We don’t know at this point when it will be opened or how much it will cost.”

£2.8bn Crossrail bailout 'may not be enough'

 

[Pickman's model]

It's all going so well, isn't?

costs a fortune and does nothing, a fitting tribute to the queen

 

[Pickman's model]

The stations aren't particularly lavish in terms of materials or design flourishes. They're just very big. The money is all in the tunneling, services, trains and signalling.

rather, the money is all in some people's pockets

 

[GarveyLives]

rather, the money is all in some people's pockets

Clearly nice work if you can get it:

Crossrail chiefs pocket another £500,000 in bonus payments

 

[TitanSound]

All of this delay bollocks I could see coming from a mile away when they suddenly went very quiet with the, up until early last year, slick PR campaign.

And my main misgiving about the whole project is it won't be enough to make a dent in terms of capacity. It will help, but only for a limited time. If they really wanted to take pressure off of the existing network, it should be quad tunnel and also branch North and South.

Damn sexy trains though.

 

[Teaboy]

The stations aren't particularly lavish in terms of materials or design flourishes. They're just very big. The money is all in the tunneling, services, trains and signalling.

They may not be lavish in terms of chandeliers and marble statues (Moscow and Kyiv etc) but some of the geometry involved in the complex finishes has cost a bomb to produce, I should know because we been involved in some of it.

Whilst tunneling, trains and signaling were always going to be the major cost they are unavoidable and cost what they cost. They are a constant in that respect. The stations are a variable and that's what surprised me. They could have been value engineered right down because it doesn't really matter on the underground.

All of this delay bollocks I could see coming from a mile away when they suddenly went very quiet with the, up until early last year, slick PR campaign.

I had my first involvement in the project over 4 years ago and one of the first thing I was told was that it was behind schedule but no one would say by how much. Why it was kept a secret when everyone involved knew is one for future historians.

 

[Crispy]

3 years late now
Crossrail delayed until 2021 as costs increase

 

[T & P]

is there any other country in the entire world that is as thoroughly inefficient, incompetent, fucking slow, and eyewateringly fucking expensive at building infrastructure projects as the UK?

 

[2hats]

is there any other country in the entire world that is as thoroughly inefficient, incompetent, fucking slow, and eyewateringly fucking expensive at building infrastructure projects as the UK?

The US?

 

[Pickman's model]

is there any other country in the entire world that is as thoroughly inefficient, incompetent, fucking slow, and eyewateringly fucking expensive at building infrastructure projects as the UK?

once again the uk is a world leader

 

[Crispy]

is there any other country in the entire world that is as thoroughly inefficient, incompetent, fucking slow, and eyewateringly fucking expensive at building infrastructure projects as the UK?

It's not a uniquely British pastime. Look at Berlin's airport, or the 2nd avenue subway in NYC for examples of late and expensive projects. So long as these things have to get through a governmental process, they will be under-priced and under-scheduled to get approval.

 

[T & P]

It's not a uniquely British pastime. Look at Berlin's airport, or the 2nd avenue subway in NYC for examples of late and expensive projects. So long as these things have to get through a governmental process, they will be under-priced and under-scheduled to get approval.

True to a degree, but while other countries might get one grand project seriously overrun, in the UK it seems to be the norm with most of them. Wembley, HS1, HS2, Heathrow... you name it, it will have almost certainly been severely late, severely over budget, or both.

 

[SpookyFrank]

True to a degree, but while other countries might get one grand project seriously overrun, in the UK it seems to be the norm with most of them. Wembley, HS1, HS2, Heathrow... you name it, it will have almost certainly been severely late, severely over budget, or both.

For a few million quid my consultancy firm will write a post for you explaining where we're going wrong.

If you want suggestions on how to so things better, we can throw those in for another couple of million.

 

[Dogsauce]

It’s all software/signalling stuff isn’t it? I’m assuming the rest of it must pretty much all be there, but I’ve not seen any recent photos of finished-looking stations etc. Are they embargoing stuff?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's not a uniquely British pastime. Look at Berlin's airport, or the 2nd avenue subway in NYC for examples of late and expensive projects. So long as these things have to get through a governmental process, they will be under-priced and under-scheduled to get approval.

The new Berlin airport might well have to be knocked down so they can start again. I have to do similar tomorrow with a flat-pack cabin bed that Frau Bahn built for BB2 last weekend, so I feel their pain.

 

[scifisam]

True to a degree, but while other countries might get one grand project seriously overrun, in the UK it seems to be the norm with most of them. Wembley, HS1, HS2, Heathrow... you name it, it will have almost certainly been severely late, severely over budget, or both.

The Overground extension was a huge project, and it came it on time.

 

[Dogsauce]

Thought HS1 went OK, although had a fairly generous budget?

 

[maomao]

It’s all software/signalling stuff isn’t it? I’m assuming the rest of it must pretty much all be there, but I’ve not seen any recent photos of finished-looking stations etc. Are they embargoing stuff?

There aren't any new stations as such are there? Forest Gate and Manor Park have had a little tarting up and work on something or other is underway at Romford.

 

[T & P]

Thought HS1 went OK, although had a fairly generous budget?

Clearly not generous enough, as it took many, many years of 190mph-capable Eurostar trainsets ricketing along at slow commuter train speeds on the old pre-existing tracks for much of the route between London and Folkestone, before all the high speed sections of track were finally built and opened for service.

French conductors/ drivers used to take great delight in announcing, their voices dripping with scorn and mockery, that the train had just emerged from the Tunnel onto France and would now be (finally) reaching the intended 300 kph speed

 

[Teaboy]

Basically its all gone to shit since they decided to call it the Elizabeth line. A stupid thing to do on so many levels. Clearly the workers rapidly became disillusioned and demoralised.

 

[skyscraper101]

They should just pull their finger out and get it finished already.

 

[Teaboy]

They should just pull their finger out and get it finished already.

Agreed, Its time to start cutting corners...

 

[skyscraper101]

Agreed, Its time to start cutting corners...

Why do they need to do all this 'testing' anyway. Bloody testing all the time holding everything up. Just run the trains through already and let them figure it out as they go. Folk will understand.

 

[tim]

The Overground extension was a huge project, and it came it on time.

Unlike the actual trains in my experience. As to being huge it was mostly on an existing, albeit long abandoned, alignment; and the trains are slow and only four or five carriages long; the Crossrail ones are long and, one would hope, fast

 

[maomao]

Unlike the actual trains in my experience. As to being huge it was mostly on an existing, albeit long abandoned, alignment; and the trains are slow and only four or five carriages long; the Crossrail ones are long and, one would hope, fast

They're seven carriages (though no doors between) and about the same length as the old eight carriage trains that have been on suburban lines for years. Wasn't a fan at first but much better when crowded.

ETA: they may be longer when all the platform extensions are finished I suppose.

 

[T & P]

I could be wrong but I thought there wasn’t that much new track or stations built for the Overground? I thought it was a bit like the South Circular: most of it just uses pre-existing sections of lines to create a new network, no?

 

[tim]

They're seven carriages (though no doors between) and about the same length as the old eight carriage trains that have been on suburban lines for years. Wasn't a fan at first but much better when crowded.

ETA: they may be longer when all the platform extensions are finished I suppose.

There are only five cars on the trains on the days I use them; perhaps, we travel on different days. I know this as a frequent alighter at Canada Water, where I am always alerted to the fact that I must be in the first four cars (or possibly carriages) of the five car/carriage train as the platforms are too short.