New camera footage of Pentagon impact released!

[editor]

I just saw a preview of '9.11 Eyewitness' by Rick Siegel. He is the New York independent film maker who took footage of the whole attack from across the Hunson River. I've been a skeptic re the 'theories', but I have to say this film which forensically analyses the footage Siegel took is the most convincing evidence of something fishy going on I have seen so far. As for the Pentagon film - now I'm convinced it was a missile!

Damn! If it wasn't for that one pesky film maker that no-one's heard of with his miles-away camera, all those architects, demolition experts, construction engineers, accident investigators and highly qualified engineers would have got away with their lies!

 

[mauvais]

If it was something as small as a missile then nothing would show on the film as it would be too small to register at that distance.

Aye, what kind of missile was it exactly?

Perhaps it was a Tomahawk missile, 5m long?

Perhaps it was an AGM-129, 6m long?

Perhaps it was a Minuteman III nuclear missile, 18m long?

Or perhaps it was a Boeing 757 intercontinental ballistic missile, 47m long?

 

[TAE]

You can see something

I can't see anything - nothing which looks like a plane.

 

[editor]

I can't see anything - nothing which looks like a plane.

Maybe that's something to do with the fact that you're looking at photos taken with a cheapo CCTV camera (only taking a picture every 30 secs) that wasn't designed for high speed photography?

 

[mauvais]

Right, come on. What was it then Jazzz, if not a 757? A 5m long missile? A 14m reconnaissance (this means no payload!) UAV?

You seem to have deleted your particularly fucking brainless assertion that it was a missile or a Global Hawk or whatever. Well, what the fuck was it? Or are you just going to forget about that and come up with it again later when you think it's marginally less ridiculous?

If it wasn't an airliner, and yet it wasn't any of these completely impossible straws you've already clutched at, then what the fuck was it? A smaller plane? Well where's your esteemed debris then?

You're arguing against yourself, in a fog of your own stinking gas. That you can't look beyond the implications of your own wild assertions to see that they're not only comedically insane, but contradict your other bizarre ramblings, should be reason enough for everyone to ignore you.

You utter, utter twat.

 

[Jazzz]

FFS: are you still desperately trying to prove that all the eye witnesses were mistaken and the guy on the scene hallucinated the wreckage and human parts?



Any slight variance in size could be accounted for by the well documented effects of wide-angle lens distortion. I don't imagine the optics in a CCTV camera are going to be up to much cop.

Ah! And you keep calling me 'deceitful' when I'm not, yet you know perfectly well that many of the eyewitness account don't confirm the official story, and plenty refer only to a plane rather than a large commuter jet. For example, here's April Gallop, as featured in 'Loose Change':

April Gallop was working in the Pentagon’s west side when it was hit. In Jim Marrs’ book Inside Job, April claims...

“While in the hospital, men in suits visited her more than once. They never identified themselves or what agency they worked for. They didn’t tell her what to say, just made suggestions. For example, to take the compensation money and shut up. They also kept insisting a plane hit the building. They repeated this over and over. But I was there, and I never saw a plane, or even debris from a plane. I figure this story is to brainwash people."

http://www.loosechange911.com/pentagon.htm

 

[mauvais]

Ah! And you keep calling me 'deceitful' when I'm not, yet you know perfectly well that many of the eyewitness account don't confirm the official story, and plenty refer only to a plane rather than a large commuter jet. For example, here's April Gallop, as featured in 'Loose Change':

But I was there, and I never saw a plane, or even debris from a plane. I figure this story is to brainwash people.

http://www.loosechange911.com/pentagon.htm

Obviously the brainwashing worked pretty fucking well, as here she is on CNN!

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0409/11/se.02.html

WALLACE: September 11th, 2001, it is your first day back from maternity leave. You're getting ready to take your newborn son, Elijah, to child care. Then what happens?

GALLOP: Again, it wasn't anything expected. I was just going to turn on the computer to do a letter. And I never got to do that. As soon as I touched the computer, boom, and I actually thought it was a bomb. And to leave out graphic details, you know, all of a sudden, due to the impact of the plane, we were blown away from the location we were at and covered under four floors of debris, walls, office equipment, et cetera.

Does your incompetence know no bounds?

 

[mauvais]

Well, come on. Not got any answers?

Look, here she is again!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12652-2004Sep10_3.html

When Elisha cries these days the same way he did when he was trapped under the debris, it all comes back. If she drives past an airport and smells jet fuel, it all comes back. She hears her injured co-workers calling for help. She sees the shards of metal, the broken furniture and shattered lights jutting dangerously every which way. It feels . . . so real.

How dare you tell these ridiculous lies? Here's your fucking source too:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...e,+availability,-daterank/103-2517204-0870207

"Alien Agenda : Investigating the Extraterrestrial Presence Among Us", anyone?

Get fucked.

 

[editor]

Ah! And you keep calling me 'deceitful' when I'm not, yet you know perfectly well that many of the eyewitness account don't confirm the official story, and plenty refer only to a plane rather than a large commuter jet. For example, here's April Gallop, as featured in 'Loose Change':

But NONE - repeat none - refer to this 'missile' that you claim hit the Pentagon - yet there's loads of reliable, traceable eye witnesses who say that they saw a 757. Are they lying, Jazzz? Why?

I've presented you with solid, eye witness testimony from someone on the scene who categorically states that he saw plane and body parts. Can you produce any evidence at all that he was lying?

As for April Gallop - who was clearly traumatised and suffered documented mental problems after the attack - all your conspiraloon claims seem strangely absent in this interview with the Washington Post - in fact, she goes to say how the sound of a "plane low overhead" brings back the memories.

And see what she said to the Guardian about the investigating commission's report:

"I always believed that the door was slightly closed from the beginning because they didn't have the budget and they didn't have the time, but with all that in mind, if you look at the final product, I believe they did a good job."

April Gallop, an attack survivor, told Government Executive she believes that Pentagon security officials such as Newton should have been told of the possibility of an attack on the building using a plane, especially since other parts of the military were contemplating such a scenario.
"I never recalled any alarms going off whatsoever on that particular day. Maybe we would have had a chance to jump out of an exit," Gallop said. "I strongly believe that if [a plane attack] was considered, people might not have been killed or injured. Who knows in hindsight how many lives could have been saved."
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1004/100704c1.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,62656,00.html

Give it up Jazzz. It's gone beyond a joke now and your disgustng attempts to manipulate, distort and exploit the testimonies of survivors is making my stomach turn.

You - and your loonspud cohorts - are a fucking disgrace.

 

[editor]

Look, here she is again!How dare you tell these ridiculous lies? Here's your fucking source too:

From the same nutcase: "Rule by Secrecy: The Hidden History That Connects the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, and the Great Pyramids "

FFS. I think it's time to ban this shit off urban.

 

[mauvais]

Aye, as far as I'm concerned you can go for it. I've honestly often enjoyed refuting this nonsense but the standard of claims has fallen to such an unbelievably spurious, infantile level that it's just offensive to anyone with any intellect whatsoever.

 

[Jazzz]

Obviously the brainwashing worked pretty fucking well, as here she is on CNN!

Does your incompetence know no bounds?

You could have equally highlighted her phrase "I actually thought it was a bomb".

Look - April Gallop is just one of many eyewitnesses whose testimonies cast doubt on the official story. There are ones describing a high-pitched squeal of a fighter jet, the smell of cordite, etc.

You can find a collection of the various conflicting reports here. It's extremely disengenous to cherry pick certain ones and pretend they are the be all and end all - whether for the official theory or against it. Another factor here is that is after the event, eyewitnesses' accounts will gravitate towards the thing that the eyewitness is led to believe happened. (e.g. take the shooting of Charles De Menezes).

I personally don't base anything on the Pentagon crash to do with the eyewitnesses, rather hard evidence. I don't understand how we can have four crashes and yet no evidence in the form of an identifiable piece of plane resulting, do you? But why worry about that when you find some eyewitnesses who say they saw what they think they must have seen.

The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from public view. The hard evidence would have included hundreds of critical time-change aircraft items, plus security videotapes that were confiscated by the FBI immediately following each tragic episode.

Col. George Nelson

We now have another 80 or so videos which haven't been released. Maybe just one of them caught the plane?

 

[editor]

You could have equally highlighted her phrase "I actually thought it was a bomb".

Oh for FUCK'S SAKE you fucking moron.

I'd imagine that's exactly how I'd describe it too if I was there, but only a complete idiot would try and suggest that she literally meant it actually was a bomb.

Your endless attempts to twist, distort and misrepresent the words of survivors are beginning to really sicken me.

She has not 'cast doubt' on the offical story - can't you read the links I've posted up?
She says the 9/11 enquiry did - and I quote her EXACT WORDS - " a good job"

 

[TeeJay]

FFS. I think it's time to ban this shit off urban.

I thought it had been even after the Huntley thread debacle about "the dog that didn't sniff" or whatever it was back then?

Now that Jazzz et all have another forum where they are free to indulge there 9-11 and 7-7 discussions I can't see why they need to keep pissing the majority of people here off all the time?

I'd love it if a thread on nuclear power (just to use one example) got half as much attention as these threads do - but I think that there is a kind of logic at work that says a handful of people spreading utter shite and using dishonest and irrational arguments can tie up a far larger number of people who have to spend a lot of time and effort to patiently show their crap for what it is using well argued, researched and reasoned posts that aren't simply invented and chopped and changed according to some fantasy logic.

It is worth showing up bullshit for what it is, but I'd prefer the crap to be posted elsewhere and for all this energy and brainpower to be put into arguments that really do matter and issues that really will have a large impact on the future of us all.

 

[fela fan]

FFS: are you still desperately trying to prove that all the eye witnesses were mistaken and the guy on the scene hallucinated the wreckage and human parts?

And are you still desperately trying to forget that all the eye witnesses did not say the same thing? And that some thought they'd heard a missile?

Your memory is in desperate need of attention.

 

[fela fan]

Better than being a paranoid fuckwit.

That might be. But jazzz is not one of them, but you are a twat. So, who's worse off eh?

 

[fela fan]

Maybe that's something to do with the fact that you're looking at photos taken with a cheapo CCTV camera (only taking a picture every 30 secs) that wasn't designed for high speed photography?

Never mind that editor, it's all the proof you need that a plane smashed into the pentagon eh? I mean, if they say it was a plane, then it damn well was a plane. How could anybody not accept this as proof...

 

[fela fan]

You utter, utter twat.

I think this perfectly describes yourself. Why the need to get so fucking abusive towards other human beings eh? You'd say that to his face would you?

Some people on these forums are abusive pricks, and you're one of them. Why the need to attack people like this? Who the fuck are you mauvais that you can use language like this to talk to people who have an opinion you don't like??

 

[snorbury]

having read the thread I can't see why people want to be interested in this event, what motivates your interest?

 

[nick1181]

These threads are always weird. They always seem to have one group of people saying things that probably aren't true in a balanced reasonable sort of way and another group saying things that probably are true in a completely rabid and unbalanced sort of way.

These threads aren't characterised by the dodginess of the theories, they're characterised by the desperation of the people wanting to stop the discussion - and in so doing carry it on for page after page.

The levels of abuse are unreal. I mean why does this matter so much? The world (and these boards) is filled with all sorts of inane conversations and theories. Why is it so important that all conversation on this subject be stopped?

I don't really buy the thousands of pages / boards being clogged with the wrong sort of conversation line to be honest. There's any number of popular subjects that could be effectively banned from these boards - to single this one out makes no more sense to me than banning any talk on Israel or Big Brother - and in any case it's the page after page of abuse that keep these threads going for so long.

As for the theories themselves, we simply don't know.

 

[mauvais]

Still no answer on what it actually was, and a rational logical backing for it? No.

 

[editor]

And are you still desperately trying to forget that all the eye witnesses did not say the same thing? And that some thought they'd heard a missile?

Show me a single quote from an eye witness who says they they categorically saw a missile and not a plane please.

And I'll show you dozens of eye witnesses who say they most definitely saw a plane.

Are they all lying then?

And how about the witness on the scene who picked up body parts and bits of plane? Is he lying too?

And how about all these people? All liars too?

Anderson, Steve

I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low

Mrs. Deb Anlauf, resident of Colfax, Wisconsin, was in her 14th floor of the Sheraton Hotel [located 1.6 mile from the explosion], (immediately west of the Navy Annex) when she heard a "loud roar": Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close.

Battle, an office worker at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said.

Gary Bauer, a former Presidential candidate, happened to be driving into Washington, D.C. that morning.... We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn't until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. A

Mickey Bell : The jet came in from the south and banked left as it entered the building....Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane's wings as it sped by him.....The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn't realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell's work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal,

Richard Benedetto, a USA TODAY reporter, was on his way to work, driving on the Highway parrallel to the Pentagon : "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly.

Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage. Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of the airplane. ''There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane,'' she said. ''It smelled like it was still burning.''

Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building."

It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane, Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact.

Allen Cleveland of Woodbridge Virginia looked out from a Metro train going to National Airport, to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon

Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building.

The plane approached the Pentagon about six feet off the ground, clipping a light pole, a car antenna, a construction trailer and an emergency generator before slicing into the building, said Lee Evey, the manager of the Pentagon's ongoing billion-dollar renovation

Many more eye witness accounts here:http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html

Your memory is in desperate need of attention.

And you want to get your head out of loonspud arse.

Now provide proof that these people are lying or shut the fuck up.

 

[Yossarian]

Why do a load of jazz pianists, students, and English teachers think they're experts about what planes hitting buildings are supposed to look like, anyway?

 

[Jo/Joe]

I can't believe this nonsense keeps returning. As if, in the information age, it would be possible to hide a story of a missile attack in the capital city of the world's most powerful nation.

 

[Jo/Joe]

You could have equally highlighted her phrase "I actually thought it was a bomb".

Look - April Gallop is just one of many eyewitnesses whose testimonies cast doubt on the official story. There are ones describing a high-pitched squeal of a fighter jet, the smell of cordite, etc.

You can find a collection of the various conflicting reports here. It's extremely disengenous to cherry pick certain ones and pretend they are the be all and end all - whether for the official theory or against it. Another factor here is that is after the event, eyewitnesses' accounts will gravitate towards the thing that the eyewitness is led to believe happened. (e.g. take the shooting of Charles De Menezes).

I personally don't base anything on the Pentagon crash to do with the eyewitnesses, rather hard evidence. I don't understand how we can have four crashes and yet no evidence in the form of an identifiable piece of plane resulting, do you? But why worry about that when you find some eyewitnesses who say they saw what they think they must have seen.

Col. George Nelson

We now have another 80 or so videos which haven't been released. Maybe just one of them caught the plane?

Maybe one of them did catch the plane. But do you think there is an urgency on the part of US authorities to prove to a few conspiracy theorists wrong and release thosevideos?

 

[nino_savatte]

It wasn't a plane it was a penis that hit the Pentagon. Jeff Rense told me so.

 

[fela fan]

Show me a single quote from an eye witness who says they they categorically saw a missile and not a plane please.

...

Now provide proof that these people are lying or shut the fuck up.

Now then. I will not show any quotes by people who either saw a missile or categorically saw a missile. You just reread my post editor, for you will see that i talked about witnesses who heard a missile.

I have never once said a plane did not crash into the pentagon, nor have i ever theorised that a missile crashed into it. Nor have i talked about the witnesses you're talking about. You really can't get much right can you.

Unlike you though, i'm not prepared to accept as proof video footage of a plane crashing into the pentagon that doesn't have a plane in it.

 

[TAE]

Maybe that's something to do with the fact that you're looking at photos taken with a cheapo CCTV camera (only taking a picture every 30 secs) that wasn't designed for high speed photography?

No doubt.

Doesn't change the fact that I can't see any plane in that footage.

 

[fela fan]

These threads aren't characterised by the dodginess of the theories, they're characterised by the desperation of the people wanting to stop the discussion - and in so doing carry it on for page after page.

You're not wrong here mate! But I still can't really understand this desperation. Editor has explained, yet is the most prolific poster anyway. As for all the others, i can't really say. They certainly like posting, and abusing. Maybe that's why they're here, just to abuse.

And i wonder what would happen to them if they talked this way to people's faces.

 

[fela fan]

No doubt.

Doesn't change the fact that I can't see any plane in that footage.

That's no matter to editor. It is good enough proof for him. After all, the witnesses he keeps wheeling out said they saw a plane. So there's not one in the video footage? No problem, it was there.