Nazi Concentration Camps

[Johnny Canuck3]

You'll need to do better than c+p obviously partisan sources that have a complete lack of primary evidence.

Go to the site, and look at the footnoting.

 

[nino_savatte]

Ah, the Jewish Virtual Library, such an unbiased source of information. Johnny frantically googles away to try and save face.

The Jewish Virtual Library is a division of the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise

 

[nino_savatte]

Here's something that I Googled earlier
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/lautenberg.html

 

[ViolentPanda]

That's interesting. Why would the UN allow the creation of the Israeli nation, then attempt to prevent them from buying weapons?

Johnny, who said the embargoes were about weapons? You're making assumptions. Prior to the creation of the state of Israel you couldn't sell arms to Jews in Palestine because they weren't the legal authority in the land. Post-independence the embargoes were mostly focussed elsewhere (Israel having bought and manufactured their own plant for their light to medium arms requirements). Technology was one of the embargoes (hence Israel's long excellence in the computer hardware field), but the finance ones were mostly to try to prevent the state of Israel from having funds for purchasing dual-use advanced technology from elsewhere (with the French being particularly incontinent in this regard).

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Johnny, who said the embargoes were about weapons? .

You did....

14-10-2007, 06:10 AM
ViolentPanda
Doesn't hug Nazis Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down in the sewer
Posts: 25,480

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck2
But you can't discount them in this.


Context, Johnny. Context.

I'm not saying "discount them", I'm saying "even if you set aside the materiel that the Sov-bloc and the independent arms traders, the state of Israel was still able to get around the export restrictions of other states by using middlemen to buy up "obsolete" hardware as scrap metal, and to then export the scrap (along, of course, with genuine scrap) to Israel".

 

[invisibleplanet]

I guess the anti palestinian holocaust didn't work. There are six million of them.

What do you think would have happened to the jews if the arab armies had been successful in any of the early anti-israeli wars?

Would you please stop being so offensive in your replies, Johnny Canuck2. The plans against the Palestinians were not 'an holocaust' - they were plans of transfer, of ethnic cleansing, and of removal from the land (which flies in the face of hard-sell slogan 'a land without people for a people without land' mantra, doesn't it?).

Also, the Palestinians and their struggles with Zionist militias attempting to disenfranchise them from their homes/businesses/communities/agricultural land have always been a completely separate issue from the 'Arab' armies, as you so uneloquently put it. The Palestinian villagers and town-dwellers themselves and their movements/reactions were not under the command of, or in direct contact with these 'Arab armies', by which you actually mean the Syrian, Transjordan, and Egyptian armies.

I'm sure I'm not the only one whose nerves you are getting on. Sort it out.

 

[Spion]

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine.

Oh, really, what Jewish settlements were attacked. By January 9 the Haganah et al had already been hard at work

18 December 1947 – Palmach attack on village of Khisas in N Galilee, commanded by Yigal Allon. Houses blown up in night attack, 15 Arabs killed

31 December 1947 - Haganah attack on Balad ash-Shaykh (10km east of Haifa and burial place of leader of 1930s Arab uprisings killed by British). Local Haganah commander ordered to, “encircle the village, kill the largest possible number of men.” 60 Palestinians killed. (Quote from Milstein, The history of the Independence War, Vol 2 p78)

31 December 1947 – Haganah attacked Haifa district of Wadi Rushmiyya and expelled Arab inhabitants

January 1948 - Haganah attacked Haifa district of Hawassa and expelled Arab inhabitants

 

[nino_savatte]

The Jewish Virtual Library is a division of the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/index.html

No one could accuse the site of having an agenda - hein?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Would you please stop being so offensive in your replies, Johnny Canuck2. The plans against the Palestinians were not 'an holocaust' - they were plans of transfer, of ethnic cleansing, and of removal from the land (which flies in the face of hard-sell slogan 'a land without people for a people without land' mantra, doesn't it?).

Also, the Palestinians and their struggles with Zionist militias attempting to disenfranchise them from their homes/businesses/communities/agricultural land have always been a completely separate issue from the 'Arab' armies, as you so uneloquently put it. The Palestinian villagers and town-dwellers themselves and their movements/reactions were not under the command of, or in direct contact with these 'Arab armies', by which you actually mean the Syrian, Transjordan, and Egyptian armies.

I'm sure I'm not the only one whose nerves you are getting on. Sort it out.

Their intentions were declared by Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."11

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf4.html

 

[ViolentPanda]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf4.html

So Azzam Pasha uses the word "extermination" and this implies a "final solution to the Jewish problem" by the Arabs?

 

[Spion]

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel's declaration of independence.

May 4, huh? By that time around 200 Arab villages and a number of urban areas had been ethnically cleansed by the Haganah et al. I can name them if you want. Can you tell me how many Jewish settlements had been cleared by that time?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Btw, the fact that Azzam Pasha said that is recorded elsewhere.

One day after the State of Israel declared itself as an independent nation (May 14, 1948), Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Egyptian, and Transjordanian troops, supported by Saudi and Yemenite troops, attacked the nascent Jewish state, triggering the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. On that day, Azzam Pasha announced: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades".[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rahman_Hassan_Azzam

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

at the beginning of the 1948 war, the same Azzam Pasha declared that “this will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.”

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V123/N12/kraus12.12c.html

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

So Azzam Pasha uses the word "extermination" and this implies a "final solution to the Jewish problem" by the Arabs?

I don't know; what do 'extermination' and 'momentous massacre' imply to you?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The plans against the Palestinians were not 'an holocaust' -t.

Get your own shit together. I never said any such thing as what you've written above.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

“The Arab nations should sacrifice up to 10 million of their 50 million people, if necessary, to wipe out Israel … Israel to the Arab world is like a cancer to the human body, and the only way of remedy is to uproot it, just like a cancer.”

–Saud ibn Abdul Aziz, King of Saudi Arabia, Associated Press, Jan. 9, 1954

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

“I announce from here, on behalf of the United Arab Republic people, that this time we will exterminate Israel.”

–President Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt, speech in Alexandria, July 26, 1959

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel."

President Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt, May 27, 1967, nine days before the start of the Six-Day War.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

"The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear -- to wipe Israel off the map."

--President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

We shall never call for nor accept peace. We shall only accept war. We have resolved to drench this land with your (Israel's) blood, to oust you as aggressor, to throw you into the sea."

Hafez Assad, then-Syrian Defense Minister, May 24, 1966

 

[nino_savatte]

That's the first time that I've ever seen anyone quote Abdul Rahman Arif on this forum. Source please?

 

[ViolentPanda]

You did....

An export restriction isn't an embargo, Johnny.

Every nation has export restrictions. They usually have a list of stuff that can't be exported without specific licencing. Arms generally have export restrictions on them.

Now, who said the embargoes were about weapons, Johnny?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

"The battle with Israel must be such that, after it, Israel will cease to exist."

Libyan President Mohammar Qadaffi, al-Usbu al-Arrabi (Beirut) quoted by Algiers Radio, Nov. 12, 1973

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

"Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity."

Zoheir Muhsin, head of the PLO Military Operations Department and member of the PLO Executive Council, 1977

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't suppose you have a quote from Rashid Ali Galyani there?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

An export restriction isn't an embargo, Johnny.

Every nation has export restrictions. They usually have a list of stuff that can't be exported without specific licencing. Arms generally have export restrictions on them.

Now, who said the embargoes were about weapons, Johnny?

I stand corrected. There was no embargo on weapons going to Israel.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The neighbouring President Aref of Iraq was equally dogmatic and straight talking, "The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear - to wipe Israel off the map"

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/as-i-see-it/The-Six-Day-War-and.2926853.jp

 

[nino_savatte]

Ah, the Newsletter, a paper beloved of Orange Men and other prod nutters.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Remember I asked this question:

The arabs didn't think the jews should be there. Had the arab armies been victorious, and occupied Jerusalem, Tel Aviv etc, what would have happened?

It looks like we have our answer.

 

[nino_savatte]

Another "what if"? What if the pilgrim fathers had gone the wrong way and ended up somewhere else?