My electricity bill has just tripled: how about yours? Alternative suppliers?

[Leafster]

High Voltage - What about a light in the loft? I've left mine on by accident and only noticed the next time I've gone up there.

 

[High Voltage]

High Voltage - What about a light in the loft? I've left mine on by accident and only noticed the next time I've gone up there.

Nope. We don't even have a loft. Or rather we do . . . technically . . . but the "loft" is only the centre part of the roof and at it's highest point, maybe, 3 feet high

Imagine, the cottage is only 1 room deep and you can see the slope of the roof running the length of the cottage, front and back encroaching a couple of feet

 

[High Voltage]

Just put a lagging kit around the hot water tank - why Oh why does it look so easy to do in the Screwfix catalogue when it's just the tank in the middle of a room with no wires or pipes connected to it and then you try to do it and immediately you're in an enclosed area, that's HOT and you can't reach around it - but still any lagging is better than no lagging

And here's the central heating pump we've got - any idea of the power consumption this'll have??

 

[prunus]

Just put a lagging kit around the hot water tank - why Oh why does it look so easy to do in the Screwfix catalogue when it's just the tank in the middle of a room with no wires or pipes connected to it and then you try to do it and immediately you're in an enclosed area, that's HOT and you can't reach around it - but still any lagging is better than no lagging

And here's the central heating pump we've got - any idea of the power consumption this'll have??

It’s a 3-speed pump, using 35, 45 or 50W depending on how fast it’s being told to pump. How fast that is depends on a lot of things - it might be preset to a single speed, or controlled by demand from your heating system - depends how sophisticated a setup you’ve got.

I would presume 50W whenever the central heating is on.

 

[High Voltage]

Thank you very much, I'm not going to go back and check my fig'rins at the moment, but I think I'd worked on a 100W usage for ease of maths

 

[prunus]

Thank you very much, I'm not going to go back and check my fig'rins at the moment, but I think I'd worked on a 100W usage for ease of maths

That’s probably fair including all the other electrics involved in a central heating system. Won’t be far off anyway.

 

[Leafster]

Nope. We don't even have a loft. Or rather we do . . . technically . . . but the "loft" is only the centre part of the roof and at it's highest point, maybe, 3 feet high

Imagine, the cottage is only 1 room deep and you can see the slope of the roof running the length of the cottage, front and back encroaching a couple of feet

Ah, OK. I can't think of any other possibilities.

Is it possible there's something else wired in somewhere which is hidden? When I moved into my place, the wiring was a little eccentric with things connected in unexpected ways. For instance, the immersion heater switch outside the bathroom actually switched the garden lights on! There were loads of cable runs which ended up connected to nothing although some of them were live. All the redundant wiring has been stripped out now but I still have a cable which comes up outside from under the extension. It's not live and my electrician suspects the other 'end' is buried somewhere under the concrete floor.

 

[High Voltage]

Ah, OK. I can't think of any other possibilities.

Is it possible there's something else wired in somewhere which is hidden? When I moved into my place, the wiring was a little eccentric with things connected in unexpected ways. For instance, the immersion heater switch outside the bathroom actually switched the garden lights on! There were loads of cable runs which ended up connected to nothing although some of them were live. All the redundant wiring has been stripped out now but I still have a cable which comes up outside from under the extension. It's not live and my electrician suspects the other 'end' is buried somewhere under the concrete floor.

I know. If we lived in a sprawling mansion with various extensions and underground garages and servants quarters and a long drive with automatic gates and flood lights all the way up, then I'd have loads of places still to look . . . but we don't

I've switched off all the plugs that are left on with something plugged in, even if the "something" was switched off and not even on stand-by

I'm gradually changing extension leads over to extension leads with each plug having an on/off switch so I can leave thing plugged in but properly switched off

I'm in very grave danger of this becoming a "thing" in my head (If you spoke to Mrs Voltz she'd already be saying that it has). And I don't want it to but knowing where power is "going" is useful, I think, especially as we're looking at, a massive increase in all forms of energy, which I simply don't see coming down regardless of what happens to "the whole sale market"

 

[cybershot]

 

[Chz]

So my PC consumes 180 watts when running at 100 percent CPU...
So 2.16kwh over 12 hours...

View attachment 315665

Now there's a name I haven't seen in a while. My grandad worked at Sangamo in Canada.

 

[gentlegreen]

Now there's a name I haven't seen in a while. My grandad worked at Sangamo in Canada.

Last calibrated in 1969
I nicked it from the junk box at work in the early 80s

 

[NoXion]

I like smart meters cos then you dont have to let some cunt in the house and move all the shit from under the stairs so he can look at it

It's also handy if you grow weed, cos then they don't come around and smell the weed.... not that i grow weed obvs

They don't need to send anyone round, if there's a smart meter then they might have enough fine-grained data to flag up anomalous electricity usage patterns consistent with cannabis cultivation. While I very much doubt that anyone is going to be stitched up purely on account of smart meter readings, it could be another piece of circumstantial evidence, and all for why? So that electricity suppliers can squeeze more cash out of their customers by monetising their electricity usage data? Nah, fuck that shit.

I hate smart meters, because I take the view that my electricity supplier doesn't need to know any more about my electricity consumption than what is required to properly bill me. They don't need to know what circuits or appliances I'm using, or what time I'm using them or the electricity supply in general, or any of that fucking nosy parker shit. I object to how we're being encouraged (by the actual cunts, rather than just some regular person who's being paid a not-especially-generous wage to do a job) to trade our privacy to make even more money for said cunts, while they feed us highly-crafted stories that it's all about efficiency and the environment.

That kind of involuntary data-scraping might be justified if electricity was supplied by the state as a public good, or perhaps with a flat-rate pricing/billing structure more akin to broadband internet. But in the current state of things, fuck no. Suppliers can ask their customers to volunteer that information, but they shouldn't be allowed to wrap up their data mining operations into their services and then lure customers into them with promises of cheaper bills.

 

[Chilli.s]

This is gonna badly impact on ganga prices

 

[existentialist]

This is gonna badly impact on ganga prices

Maybe not the ones who successfully bypass their meters...

 

[Artaxerxes]

 

[danny la rouge]

The Cost of Living - Anarchist Communist Group

Let’s put this into perspective. Energy companies are telling us that they are being “forced” to put our bills up by heart-stopping amounts, but on the other hand, Paula Rosput Reynolds, chair of BP’s remuneration committee, said: “Financial performance… was outstanding.” Something very odd is...

www.anarchistcommunism.org

 

[prunus]

It's called an ecoforest geo, ground source, 5-22kW output (variable). Claims COP of 5, but that will be under ideal conditions, which of course don't exist in the real world. I'll be very happy if it manages 3.5.

Well, heat pump is in and working, it’s early days yet but so far output is 17.8kWh for 3.3kWh of electricity input, for a performance factor of 5.4 or thereabouts. If it continues like this that’ll be a winner.

 

[High Voltage]

Well, heat pump is in and working, it’s early days yet but so far output is 17.8kWh for 3.3kWh of electricity input, for a performance factor of 5.4 or thereabouts. If it continues like this that’ll be a winner.

Explain please . . . "Please, speak as you might to a young child, or a golden retriever" (Jeremy Irons - Margin Call)

Thank you very much

 

[cupid_stunt]

I've had to chase up OVO today, they seem to still be struggling with getting those clowns at SSE to sort out the over charging issue OVO inherited when I was transferred over.

ATM my electricity account is showing a estimated meter reading of 17412 compared to the actual reading of 14114, some 3298kWh more than it should be, which at £0.2053kWh equals an overcharge of £677.

My joint electricity/gas account balance is currently showing -£108, and an estimate that I'll be at -£639 in 12 months at the new rates, so that £677 credit plus a reduction in my estimated usage over the coming 12 months should result in my DD being reduced even further than they have already done since I first complained.

When I first contacted OVO they dropped my DD from £171 to £125 whilst they resolve matters with SSE in respect of their off the scale estimated meter readings, despite not having resolved that, I've had an e-mail saying they are putting it up to £186 from the 15th April.

Now I get this is probably just a automated procedure, but FFS, you would think when there's a dispute over the account, and they have a number of correct meter readings and even a bloody photo of the meter as evidence, there would be an override on the account to prevent this nonsense.

Now I will activate my automatic response and cancel the DD until this is sorted out.

 

[StoneRoad]

That's why I dislike DDs for bills, especially when there is such increases in costs / blatant profiteering.
I prefer to use standing orders, at least I can control the amount paid over !

 

[gentlegreen]

That's why I dislike DDs for bills, especially when there is such increases in costs / blatant profiteering.
I prefer to use standing orders, at least I can control the amount paid over !

I belatedly discovered that Bulb (as was) allow you to rein-in the excess and pay a minimum of £40ish
My credit with them will be almost exhausted this month and I will have to increase the payments.
Not that it ever made much difference, but I thought them sitting on £500 - or more than 5 months' credit was a bit excessive - though the previous supplier had done that too ...

 

[StoneRoad]

Arghhh.

I am still going round and turning lights etc off in otherwise empty rooms after other people.
I know all the indoor ones are LEDs but that's not the point.

Also, the outside lights aren't [yet] all LEDs and the floods eat power.

Turned the thermostats [room & rads] down again.
We have plants and small animals that will cark if they get too cold overnight.
Planning on similar with the hot water, but gradually ...

 

[cybershot]

Now I will activate my automatic response and cancel the DD until this is sorted out.

There's possibly a 'discount' for paying by DD so take this consideration before cancelling. Although any discount is probably not worth the time and effort you're putting into trying to resolve it. You will likely find once it is resolved you'll get a credit put on your account anyway.

When I had a similar problem with E.on, coincidently after transferring from OVO, they applied the tariffs to my economy 7 meter in the opposite way OVO had. I could have pleaded ignorance and probably got away with it but I didn't want to risk a huge bill if and when I left E.on and they clocked on I was night tariff for my day usage and day tariff for my night usage!

They told me it would take 6 weeks to sort. 3 Months later and it wasn't sorted.

At this point bypass customer service and go straight to the complaints department. It will magically get sorted within a week and they will give you a credit.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Just found this helpful graph on the OVO site, showing the estimated use in 2021 as supplied by SSE.

How the hell did they almost double my usage between June, which was probably about right, and July, that's completely bonkers!

Checking back on 2020 my usage goes up by about 25% in winter, so take that June figure of 132 + 25% = 165 for December, not 375!

 

[prunus]

Explain please . . . "Please, speak as you might to a young child, or a golden retriever" (Jeremy Irons - Margin Call)

Thank you very much

I’ll try… A heat pump works by extracting low-temperature heat from a large source (mine is 3/4 mile of 4” pipes buried 4’ underground under about 1/2 acre of field) and ‘concentrating’ the heat to useful temperatures for heating, hot water etc.

To do this it needs to pump liquid through the pipes (so the liquid can warm up to the temperature underground - currently 8C), and also run a compressor (like - exactly like in fact - a fridge) plus a load of other electronics and pumps and fans and so on - it therefore uses electricity to run - in my case after running for about 48 hours it had used 3.3kWh.

One can also measure how much heat it has managed to extract and concentrate, and then distribute to the heating system and hot water in the house, over the same period - in this case 17.8kWh.

The ratio between these figures is the performance factor, the efficiency of the system. Here on these number it’s 5.4. This means for every kWh of energy (electricity) one puts in one gets 5.4kWh of energy (heat) out, effectively reducing the energy input requirements for the house by a factor of 5.4.

This of course reduces the cost per kWh required by the same factor - so at current electricity prices from 30p/kWh required to about 5.5p/kWh - cheaper than gas! (on these figures - which are higher than expected, so it’ll probably settle down but still be somewhere between 3 and 4x efficiency).

And of course as the input is electricity it can be sourced entirely from renewable sources (which as I’m with octopus it’s supposed to be), so as well as being cheaper than gas, it’s greener than gas too (as gas can obviously never be renewable).

Hope that all makes sense. There is a bunch of physics contained within the phrase ‘concentrating the heat’ up at the top there, which I could take a stab at explaining, but in another post (and only if anyone requests!)

 

[cybershot]

I’ll try… A heat pump works by extracting low-temperature heat from a large source (mine is 3/4 mile of 4” pipes buried 4’ underground under about 1/2 acre of field) and ‘concentrating’ the heat to useful temperatures for heating, hot water etc.

To do this it needs to pump liquid through the pipes (so the liquid can warm up to the temperature underground - currently 8C), and also run a compressor (like - exactly like in fact - a fridge) plus a load of other electronics and pumps and fans and so on - it therefore uses electricity to run - in my case after running for about 48 hours it had used 3.3kWh.

One can also measure how much heat it has managed to extract and concentrate, and then distribute to the heating system and hot water in the house, over the same period - in this case 17.8kWh.

The ratio between these figures is the performance factor, the efficiency of the system. Here on these number it’s 5.4. This means for every kWh of energy (electricity) one puts in one gets 5.4kWh of energy (heat) out, effectively reducing the energy input requirements for the house by a factor of 5.4.

This of course reduces the cost per kWh required by the same factor - so at current electricity prices from 30p/kWh required to about 5.5p/kWh - cheaper than gas! (on these figures - which are higher than expected, so it’ll probably settle down but still be somewhere between 3 and 4x efficiency).

And of course as the input is electricity it can be sourced entirely from renewable sources (which as I’m with octopus it’s supposed to be), so as well as being cheaper than gas, it’s greener than gas too (as gas can obviously never be renewable).

Hope that all makes sense. There is a bunch of physics contained within the phrase ‘concentrating the heat’ up at the top there, which I could take a stab at explaining, but in another post (and only if anyone requests!)

Probably somewhere else in the tread but damned if I can trawl through 23 pages. What sort of property do you have and are you out in the sticks?

 

[two sheds]

A fridge works by compressing the gas which heats it so the back of the fridge gets warm. It's pumped in the pipe to inside the fridge where it expands which cools the fridge itself. Heat pump works in reverse so the compressor is inside the house to warm it and the expansion unit is outside to cool the ground.

What I don't quite understand is how you get more heat out than electrical energy you put in so why the Coefficient of Performance is above 1. I'd also thought the theoretical maximum was about 3 or 4, so 5.4 is really good and I'm wondering what the theoretical maximum actually is.

 

[High Voltage]

I’ll try… A heat pump works by extracting low-temperature heat from a large source (mine is 3/4 mile of 4” pipes buried 4’ underground under about 1/2 acre of field) and ‘concentrating’ the heat to useful temperatures for heating, hot water etc.

To do this it needs to pump liquid through the pipes (so the liquid can warm up to the temperature underground - currently 8C), and also run a compressor (like - exactly like in fact - a fridge) plus a load of other electronics and pumps and fans and so on - it therefore uses electricity to run - in my case after running for about 48 hours it had used 3.3kWh.

One can also measure how much heat it has managed to extract and concentrate, and then distribute to the heating system and hot water in the house, over the same period - in this case 17.8kWh.

The ratio between these figures is the performance factor, the efficiency of the system. Here on these number it’s 5.4. This means for every kWh of energy (electricity) one puts in one gets 5.4kWh of energy (heat) out, effectively reducing the energy input requirements for the house by a factor of 5.4.

This of course reduces the cost per kWh required by the same factor - so at current electricity prices from 30p/kWh required to about 5.5p/kWh - cheaper than gas! (on these figures - which are higher than expected, so it’ll probably settle down but still be somewhere between 3 and 4x efficiency).

And of course as the input is electricity it can be sourced entirely from renewable sources (which as I’m with octopus it’s supposed to be), so as well as being cheaper than gas, it’s greener than gas too (as gas can obviously never be renewable).

Hope that all makes sense. There is a bunch of physics contained within the phrase ‘concentrating the heat’ up at the top there, which I could take a stab at explaining, but in another post (and only if anyone requests!)

Say, for instance, "one" didn't have access to such a sizeable "garden" as you've got for your system . . . is there a break point where a ground heat pump isn't really viable?

Only we've got a south facing garden, on a pretty steep slope, and it's a funny shape, but size wise, best guess 40 yards by 40 yards, would a system like this be viable

And how the hell do you bury pipes 4' into the ground, please tell me you didn't hand dig them in, surely, or was that part of the installation by a company?

And, super cheeky I realise, but would you be prepared to give an indication of cost and / or break even time . . . a simple Fuck Off HV is a perfectly acceptable answer btw

 

[cupid_stunt]

There's possibly a 'discount' for paying by DD so take this consideration before cancelling. Although any discount is probably not worth the time and effort you're putting into trying to resolve it. You will likely find once it is resolved you'll get a credit put on your account anyway.

As it's in dispute, when they finally sort it out, I expect they will keep me on the DD rate, as I'll be back to paying by DD.

They told me it would take 6 weeks to sort. 3 Months later and it wasn't sorted.

At this point bypass customer service and go straight to the complaints department. It will magically get sorted within a week and they will give you a credit.

I first contacted OYO back in January and they said they would raise a dispute with SSE, when I called them last week it was escalated to their complaints department, next day I get an e-mail saying they are only just now opening a dispute with SSE and that it could take 12 weeks, on top of the 10 weeks I've already been waiting.

I've e-mailed back, pointing out both their complaints policy and OFGEM rules says dispute must be dealt with within 8 weeks, and that I consider that time to be up already, and that I want my account sorted now as that's my issue, and they can carry on with their dispute with SSE which is their problem, not mine.

Got an auto-reply saying it's taking 5 working days to reply to e-mails.

So, I'll see what happens this week, I may well end up firing off complaints to both their CEO and OFGEM.

 

[prunus]

Probably somewhere else in the tread but damned if I can trawl through 23 pages. What sort of property do you have and are you out in the sticks?

It’s an old (15th-17th century) stone-built farmhouse, basically unmodernised until I started on it - had electricity but main source of heat and hot water was wood burning stoves - and yes it’s probably beyond the definition of the sticks - nearest neighbour is a sheep, as are the next 500 nearest neighbours. About 1/4 mile to the nearest non-sheep neighbour. In the southern Pennines. Beautiful.