My electricity bill has just tripled: how about yours? Alternative suppliers?

[gentlegreen]

I've ordered a small terracotta pot and gonna try this hack. its not going to make much difference, but I'm intrigued. Haven't done any such experiment since secondary school in the 90s. Before anyone mentions its dangerous etc. yes I am fully aware. Its not like I'm gonna go to bed or go outside with it left on.

No no no !

200 watts of electricity cost 7p per hour.

Please do not do fall for this crap.
I have posted about this on here multiple times and left comments on YouTube channels.

 

[donkyboy]

No no no !

200 watts of electricity cost 6p per hour.

Please do not do fall for this crap.
I have posted about this on here multiple times and left comments on YouTube channels.

sigh....always one who has to come along...

 

[two sheds]

Well it's cheap heating if you set fire to the room.

 

[donkyboy]

Well it's cheap heating if you set fire to the room.

thats the plan.

 

[gentlegreen]

It's not science it's ancient Internet bullshit spread by people who slept through science class when they were 11 years old.

 

[two sheds]

ancient Cornish Internet bullshit please

 

[gentlegreen]

 

[two sheds]

ooh good for fighting condensation

and the Cornish version looks a lot safer with only one tea light




but

why good for fighting condensation though?

 

[donkyboy]

It's not science it's ancient Internet bullshit spread by people who slept through science class when they were 11 years old.

shut up. i'll take the word of an old cornish fella over you.

 

[prunus]

I've ordered a small terracotta pot and gonna try this hack. its not going to make much difference, but I'm intrigued. Haven't done any such experiment since secondary school in the 90s. Before anyone mentions its dangerous etc. yes I am fully aware. Its not like I'm gonna go to bed or go outside with it left on.

I don’t reckon that’s actually that dangerous, as long as it’s not somewhere it could be easily knocked over. I’d happily leave one on and go to sleep.

However I think you’d need rather a lot of them to make any appreciable difference in even the smallest room. Heat output of those little tea lights is about 30-50W, so probably minimum of 5 or 6 for even a 2 square metre lavatory or similar. Plus you could dispense with all the plates and pots and so on and get the same effect (though they might get blown out more easily I suppose. And the pot etc make it a lot safer.)

 

[gentlegreen]

I saw one serious test with 4 of these in a tiny house and though it warmed the super-insulated space, the carbon monoxide level was not insignificant.

 

[platinumsage]

I don’t reckon that’s actually that dangerous, as long as it’s not somewhere it could be easily knocked over. I’d happily leave one on and go to sleep.

What happens when the pot cracks and falls on the candles, knocking them everywhere and spreading the fire to the surrounding area?

 

[gentlegreen]

There is a reason there is a charitable programme to supply small solar / LED devices to Africa where children have to use kerosene lamps in small huts to do their schoolwork.
I wonder what the equivalent in cigarettes was for the average posh Victorian living with open fires and gas-lighting ...

SolarAid - Ashden

Creative distribution brings solar lights to East Africa’s rural poor

ashden.org

 

[Karl Masks]

are tea tree light candles safe in proximity in general? I use them all the time (when it's dark in the morning)

 

[gentlegreen]

are tea tree light candles safe in proximity in general? I use them all the time (when it's dark in the morning)

I suppose it depends how lucky you feel...
The irony has suddenly hit me about all those new-agey types with their essential oil vaporisers ....

 

[Karl Masks]

I suppose it depends how lucky you feel...
The irony has suddenly hit me about all those new-agey types with their essential oil vaporisers ....

Now I'm worried. I do some evening yoga with them lit as well, and candelight is less harsh than turning on a lamp first thing in the morning. I'd hate to burn the house down over christmas while doing down dog

 

[gentlegreen]

I have moderate OCD and unplug things and have to know where all my batteries are - and anything capable of producing a naked flame never leaves the kitchen/bathroom or garden.

I suppose a yoga mat in the middle of a tiled floor would be safe enough ...

You can get all sorts of neat and cheap flame-effect LED lamps these days.

Doubtless people who smoke will have different safety thresholds ...

 

[gentlegreen]

If this is as cold as it gets, I should hopefully get through the next 8 weeks on less than 5kwh per day - basically the equivalent of not replacing my fridge.
Total spent on heating so far £11.75 - rolling average 64p per day.

 

[Chz]

why good for fighting condensation though?

Heaven knows. Anyone who cooks with gas can tell you that combustion of hydrocarbons creates humidity. Condensation on windows is just the British climate; it's something we have to suffer with. So long as you live on an island where the daytime temperature rarely goes below zero, the windows are going to get wet in winter. I have ventilation and run a dehumidifier and there's still water on the windows.

 

[teuchter]

Condensation on windows is just the British climate; it's something we have to suffer with.

No it's not - with triple or good double glazing, and sufficient ventilation, there should not be any condensation on windows.

 

[weltweit]

I get condensation on the inside of my windscreen. I have a special sponge to get rid of it. I keep experimenting with how I leave the ventilation ducts in the car in the hope of finding one that avoids condensation, but if the conditions are right I still get it.

 

[WouldBe]

but

why good for fighting condensation though?

Can't see that it would be considering that burning gives off water vapour.

 

[Chz]

No it's not - with triple or good double glazing, and sufficient ventilation, there should not be any condensation on windows.

So if I have decent double glazing, a few windows open a crack, and run a dehumidifier set to 50% why is there condensation?
(I'd say probably because its 80% humidity outside, there are 3 people in the house all day, and even good double glazed glass still gets cold enough to condense moist air. Otherwise why would triple glaze even exist?)

 

[platinumsage]

Yeah I've got new double glazing, and still get condensation like with the old windows (albeit confined to an inch or so at the bottom). Presumably if I drilled holes through the frame and installed trickle vents, rendering the improved noise and heat insulation entirely pointless I might be able to reduce that somewhat, but that would be silly.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I've got double glazing and never seem to have a problem with condensation, but they came with trickle vents, which I assume is the reason that if a run a dehumidifier it switches on & off for a minute or two every so often, but doesn't collect any water.

The trickle vents don't seem to make much difference to noise and heat insulation, although I tend to close them during very cold snaps, like now, I'll keep an eye out to see if I start getting condensation over the next few days before I open them again, if I do, I'll put the dehumidifier on and see if that collects any water.

And, I live in a bungalow...

Bungalows and flats are always more prone to condensation simply because it's more difficult to get air to circulate in a home that is laid out on a single floor. If you live in a bungalow or flat it's particularly important to ensure you have some form of ventilation in 'wet' rooms and bedrooms.

 

[Chz]

I suppose I should qualify that by "condensation" I do only mean a half inch at the very bottom of the window. Not dripping down the whole pane like when I lived in a Victorian flat with sash windows. Generally night-time only downstairs, through more of the day upstairs (moist air rises, believe it or not). To be fair, the number of people in the house probably makes a much larger difference than trickle vents do. I tend to actually leave a few windows open one "notch" (where you can lock the window but it's still open a crack) any time it's above freezing at night.

The more I think about it, it's the sort of thing that would be quite affected by the local micro-climate, too. Whether you're on a dip in the road, or at the top of a small rise. I'm always amazed at how I can have completely different weather to someone I know all of 5 miles down the road in Worcester Park.

 

[teuchter]

So if I have decent double glazing, a few windows open a crack, and run a dehumidifier set to 50% why is there condensation?
(I'd say probably because its 80% humidity outside, there are 3 people in the house all day, and even good double glazed glass still gets cold enough to condense moist air. Otherwise why would triple glaze even exist?)

Obviously it's not really possible to answer the question without knowing quite a lot of detail about the house.

But assuming the double glazing is fairly decent then it points to excessive moisture in the air. There are multiple potential causes of that. For example it could be that there is general damp caused by leaking roofs or walls, or it could be that there's insufficient ventilation, for example there is not good enough extract ventilation from the main sources of humidity like the kitchen or bathrooms or areas used for drying clothes.

Ventilation can always be increased - but of course, the more you increase it, the more heat you are losing. Unless you use a heat-exchanger ventilation system, something that is gradually becoming more the norm as houses become more airtight.

Heat-exchanger ventilation systems can be expensive so of course a balance can be struck, where you ventilate (operate extract fans, open windows or use trickle vents) to a point where any condensation is tolerable. If it's a bit of condensation at the bottom of windows for brief periods during the day, and the condensation generally evaporates away later and doesn't cause water to pool up and start causing mould, then it's quite reasonable to decide it doesn't really matter, and you'd rather not increase your heating bills to get rid of something that isn't actually a problem.

But generally, it certainly isn't an inevitability in the UK climate that you will regularly see problematic condensation on double glazed windows.

The reason triple glazing exists is that even if double glazing can generally insulate to a level sufficient to keep the inner pane above the dewpoint in the UK climate, it's still losing heat and triple glazing can provide an even better level of insulation where you can reduce heating costs and increase comfort (especially when you have large areas of glazing).

 

[MickiQ]

I suppose I should qualify that by "condensation" I do only mean a half inch at the very bottom of the window. Not dripping down the whole pane like when I lived in a Victorian flat with sash windows. Generally night-time only downstairs, through more of the day upstairs (moist air rises, believe it or not). To be fair, the number of people in the house probably makes a much larger difference than trickle vents do. I tend to actually leave a few windows open one "notch" (where you can lock the window but it's still open a crack) any time it's above freezing at night.

The more I think about it, it's the sort of thing that would be quite affected by the local micro-climate, too. Whether you're on a dip in the road, or at the top of a small rise. I'm always amazed at how I can have completely different weather to someone I know all of 5 miles down the road in Worcester Park.

The same except in my case it's almost always upstairs only

 

[WouldBe]

But assuming the double glazing is fairly decent then it points to excessive moisture in the air. There are multiple potential causes of that. For example it could be that there is general damp caused by leaking roofs or walls, or it could be that there's insufficient ventilation, for example there is not good enough extract ventilation from the main sources of humidity like the kitchen or bathrooms or areas used for drying clothes.

I dry clothes on the radiators inside in winter also I have no ventilation in my windowless bathroom at the moment and the only place I get condensation is the bottom corner of the kitchen window that must be over 40 years old.

I seem to have more problems with condensation on the outside of the windows.

 

[teuchter]

Condensation on the outside is generally a good sign your windows are well insulated: the outer pane staying cold enough to gather condensation means that not much of your indoors heat energy is leaking through and warming it up.