Muslims and the European media

[mears]

Maybe similar threads were started but its seems as though countless threads are started on Iraq alone in BOTH the World Affairs and ME forum. If the moderators don't want another thread on this topic you can point me to another thread that deals with these questions; however, I can't seem to find it.

So why pretend the current Muslim protests in Eurpe are not happening? Its like that loud drunk uncle at the holidays everyone shuns.What about the issues of freedom of speech and religious tolerance? Should European media outlets continue to reprint these cartoons to make a statement about freedom of speech? Are Muslim groups in Europe justified in their anger, or is this an overeaction? What about jack Starw's comments that the decision of some newspapers to reprint the cartoons were "insensitive, disrespectful and wrong”? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2024352,00.html

 

[mears]

actually this might be better in the world politics forum

 

[foggypane]

So why pretend the current Muslim protests in Eurpe are not happening? ........ What about jack Starw's comments that the decision of some newspapers to reprint the cartoons were "insensitive, disrespectful and wrong”?

Straw has a duty as foreign secretary to keep things smooth with the foreigners. The fact that he is up to his scrawny neck in New Labour's nasty illiberalism probably helps him fulfill this distasteful task.

This must surely be one of a tiny handful of subjects where I can find myself agreeing with a US Republican (and just what does 'secular Republican' mean when you're in a room full of salivating Xians?)


It has been covered a fair bit on rather purple threads:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=150029
I was a bit purple on one myself.

 

[mears]

Straw has a duty as foreign secretary to keep things smooth with the foreigners. The fact that he is up to his scrawny neck in New Labour's nasty illiberalism probably helps him fulfill this distasteful task.

This must surely be one of a tiny handful of subjects where I can find myself agreeing with a US Republican (and just what does 'secular Republican' mean when you're in a room full of salivating Xians?)


It has been covered a fair bit on rather purple threads:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=150029
I was a bit purple on one myself.

What do we agree about?

I am a Republican who doesn't dig organized religion. I am not alone. Don't need a church to tell me what I should believe, more into free will. But if one goes to a house of worship thats fine as well. Just not for me.

Actually we do agree on something else. I am having a beer right now

 

[big footed fred]

The papers were daft to print it.
The muslims who riot and demand death for the publishers are bloody idiots.
The free speach bit is bollocks - it was designed to stir things up. Sells papers.

I have seen many cartoons/satires of a religious or political nature and they stir up a little mess.
Look at what Monty python's Life of Brian did and the church's reaction.
A couple of lousy taste cartoons and the idiot end of the muslim religion is after blood.

With a reaction like this is at any wonder that muslims have such a bad name in this country and with the stupidity of the papers why the europeans are getting a bloody awful name in Muslim countries. WW 3 here we come.

 

[mears]

The papers were daft to print it.
The muslims who riot and demand death for the publishers are bloody idiots.
The free speach bit is bollocks - it was designed to stir things up. Sells papers.

I have seen many cartoons/satires of a religious or political nature and they stir up a little mess.
Look at what Monty python's Life of Brian did and the church's reaction.
A couple of lousy taste cartoons and the idiot end of the muslim religion is after blood.

With a reaction like this is at any wonder that muslims have such a bad name in this country and with the stupidity of the papers why the europeans are getting a bloody awful name in Muslim countries. WW 3 here we come.

Shit, I agree with all of that as well!

maybe its the Tuborg...

I do think we will avert WWIII however.

 

[foggypane]

What do we agree about?

QUOTE]


I read an implication in to your threadhead that you think the Muslims who are whining about the cartoons should both grow up and fuck off. I agree with that. Should the effort of doing both prove too much I'd settle for the fucking off.

I'm on Guiness now - what about you? Some thin fizzy Budalike?

(jealous of your sensible beer pricing policies )

 

[foggypane]

Ah. Tu-tu-tu-tuborg. Not in this weather.

settles back, wondering what to call an Irish Handful when the whiskey component is Canadian

 

[mears]

What do we agree about?

QUOTE]


I read an implication in to your threadhead that you think the Muslims who are whining about the cartoons should both grow up and fuck off. I agree with that. Should the effort of doing both prove too much I'd settle for the fucking off.

I'm on Guiness now - what about you? Some thin fizzy Budalike?

(jealous of your sensible beer pricing policies )

That is how I feel. You say it well.

Tuborg is actually hard to find where I live, I had it in Europe and it grew on me. I had a Bud (American Bud of course) last friday at the bar and it was terrible. The big name American brands like Bud and Miller are awful, in my opinion.

Guiness is of course outstanding.

 

[foggypane]

Given that I'm a Red, I feel a little uncomfortable agreeing with you about anything - especially within 24 hours of agreeing with rogue yam (I can't remember what about ) but religionism, or at least telling the rest of us what to do religionism is near the top of my shove-it-up-your-arse list.

On a more serious note, I'd like to clarify that the Guiness in question is Export, a very august beer and one which demands, even commands, respect. Hard to find and a snip at £1.20 a bottle from Bob at the corner shop.

Goes very well with the CC, which reminds me a little of Jameson.

 

[rogue yam]

I have seen many cartoons/satires of a religious or political nature and they stir up a little mess.
Look at what Monty python's Life of Brian did and the church's reaction.

In the wake of the Monty Python film, were there riots and death threats, etc. at all comparable to what we've seen already in the present case (which will only get worse, I expect)? I think not! Here in the U.S. we have had controversies about anti-Christian movies or artwork, and even calls for boycotts and demonstrations. But I have never heard of anyone who wanted the material banned, or who called for violence against the producers of same. That's not to say that some isolated extremist somewhere didn't do so. But I think you trivialize what is happening now with the Muslim backlash over these cartoons when you draw even a rough equivalence to peaceful, democratic dispute over religion here in the West. And that does not help matters.

 

[foggypane]

All true RY.

The danger, in UK at least, from this nasty little story is that our far right scumbags (I'm not lumping your version of far right in with them) gain from it.

I've thought long and hard about it, and I can't see any way of disagreeing with the likes of the BNP when they use our language of free speech as the starting point for their crap. When they go beyond that, into demonisation of Muslims/Arabs, then I have to call a halt to my agreement.

 

[rogue yam]

Given that I'm a Red, I feel a little uncomfortable agreeing with you about anything - especially within 24 hours of agreeing with rogue yam

We're wearing you down, foggy. Better be careful.

As for me, I'm heading out. It's Friday evening and I've got nothing to drink in the house, so it's down to the local for some nice fresh Sierra Nevada Pale Ale on draft (the pride of Chico, California), and then later perhaps a taste of my favorite tipple, Knob Creek straight bourbon whiskey from Kentucky. I asked for Danish beer at my bar a couple of days ago, but they didn't stock any, though maybe I'll get some Danish baby back ribs for the barbecue on Sunday. Go Seahawks!

 

[foggypane]

You fill your boots, RY, raise a glass for the downtrodden masses and I'll raise one for finding common ground.

 

[rogue yam]

The danger, in UK at least, from this nasty little story is that our far right scumbags (I'm not lumping your version of far right in with them) gain from it.

No worries. Look, I'm about as conservative as they come on a lot of stuff (and libertarian on the rest) but we have here in the U.S some flat-out Nazis (literally) and racists that I'll have nothing to do with. What's odd though is that while it seems the European extreme right hates Muslims and Arabs and thus might gain from the present conflict, the extreme right here in the U.S. (think David Duke, etc. here) are so utterly anti-Jew that they've actually been at least pretending to embrace the Palestinian "cause"! It's almost funny, really. These same guys who just flat-out rip on Jews, blacks, and Asians (meaning Chinese, Vietnamese, etc.) all of a sudden start acting like Bertrand Fuckin' Russell when it comes to the A-rabs! The result is that they look even more like liars and clowns. These types have absolutely no power or credibility or hope here. But that doesn't stop some (not you, foggy) from trying to paint the National Review-type Conservatives such as myself with the same brush. It is impossible to get a rise out of me like that. It is just too weak.

 

[FruitandNut]

It's a 'Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World', a few cartoons about Muhammed kicking off a load of 'hoo-ha' in the Islamic diaspora! It is a bit like we in the west 'protecting' the name of Charles Manson. Have these guys looked into the life of the 'prophet' Muhammed? I suspect not. They don't seem to read, or have access to all their own writings and records on the guy. What Islam itself writes about the guy shows him to be one sick, flakey cookie. What is see in much of the Islamic world at present is a classical 'crowd mentality', largely unthinking, hugely emotive and blo*dy dangerous both to itself and the rest of the world! I am very alarmed at developments. Their is a massive divide between the feudal mind of many Muslims and the freer more expressive and questioning western world. Do those who speak about Armageddon have it about right - I wonder!

 

[foggypane]

Thanks for that post RY. I like to spend a little time now and then abusing and insulting the fascist types. I even had a little fight with one once, the arshole, for glorifying the nazi bastards who killed so many of my regiment in WW2. (this was on Remembrance Day, I got his blood on my medals )

Your sort of right winger are put on the Earth to argue with though, because you are so very very wrong about everything. Except beer, plainly.

 

[foggypane]

It's a 'Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World', a few cartoons about Muhammed kicking off a load of 'hoo-ha' in the Islamic diaspora! It is a bit like we in the west 'protecting' the name of Charles Manson. Have these guys looked into the life of the 'prophet' Muhammed? I suspect not. They don't seem to read, or have access to all their own writings and records on the guy. What Islam itself writes about the guy shows him to be one sick, flaky cookie. What is see in much of the Islamic world at present is a classical 'crowd mentality', largely unthinking, hugely emotive and blo*dy dangerous both to itself and the rest of the world! I am very alamed at developments. Their is a massive divide between the feudal mind of many Muslims and the freer more expressive and questioning western world. Do those who speak about Armageddon have it about right - I wonder!

Thank you for illustrating my point perfectly. Emphasis on the 'nut' in 'Fruitandnut'?

 

[FruitandNut]

foggypane - Please expand on your contention! It seems a totally irrational comment on my thought out post.

ps. They talk about blasphemy - do they know the definition of blasphemy? Are they now claiming Muhammed to be divine like a deity?

pps. I am far from being right-wing in my politics. Indeed I am suspicious of much in politics. I do however like to seek the truth and think, that perhaps does make me a bit of an oddball in this crazy world.

 

[foggypane]

It's a 'Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World', a few cartoons about Muhammed kicking off a load of 'hoo-ha' in the Islamic diaspora! It is a bit like we in the west 'protecting' the name of Charles Manson. Have these guys looked into the life of the 'prophet' Muhammed? I suspect not. They don't seem to read, or have access to all their own writings and records on the guy. What Islam itself writes about the guy shows him to be one sick, flakey cookie. What is see in much of the Islamic world at present is a classical 'crowd mentality', largely unthinking, hugely emotive and blo*dy dangerous both to itself and the rest of the world! I am very alarmed at developments. Their is a massive divide between the feudal mind of many Muslims and the freer more expressive and questioning western world. Do those who speak about Armageddon have it about right - I wonder!

I may be misinterpreting you. Your post appears not to come from the position 'Islam is a religion who's adherents may be offended by certain images. Some of them may demonstrate that offence. I disagree with their view for the following reasons...'.

It appears to come from the position: 'Hey, these muslims are CRAZY! They might even attack us, the primitive bastards!'


Which is not a huge distinction but is an important one. The BNP and their greasy like would be delighted at this blurring. It suits their psycho-sexually disfunctional purposes.

 

[FruitandNut]

I am concentrating on the issue of the trouble being about a guy who Islamic scholors themselves have recorded as being the kind of person that most rationality would see as being hardly worthy of such a reaction. Now if the cartoons were about 'Allah' (and there is also an interesting story there as well), I could understand better the hair pulling, popping off of guns and knee-jerk sanctions.

ps. I have little time for the BNP or the KKK for that matter, I see them roughly as western equivalents of the (substantial) fundamentalist elements in Islam.

 

[mears]

We're wearing you down, foggy. Better be careful.

As for me, I'm heading out. It's Friday evening and I've got nothing to drink in the house, so it's down to the local for some nice fresh Sierra Nevada Pale Ale on draft (the pride of Chico, California), and then later perhaps a taste of my favorite tipple, Knob Creek straight bourbon whiskey from Kentucky. I asked for Danish beer at my bar a couple of days ago, but they didn't stock any, though maybe I'll get some Danish baby back ribs for the barbecue on Sunday. Go Seahawks!

Oh my god, you like the Seahawks Jumping on the bandwagon?

I am a die hard Colts fan, grew up in Indianapolis. They go 13-0 and lose to fucking Pittsburg. Just terrible

 

[bugsy7]

I am a die hard Colts fan, grew up in Indianapolis. They go 13-0 and lose to fucking Pittsburg. Just terrible

E-mail Phoney Tony about that. I'm sure he'll arrange a national two-minute silence in the UK for you. He likes accommodating Septics, even down to inviting your gobshite of a president over for a scoff and a bevvy with the Parasite-in Chief (also known as the queen).

MsG

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I am a die hard Colts fan, grew up in Indianapolis.

Not Baltimore then.

 

[rogue yam]

Well her heart was filled with gladness when she saw those city lights
She said the prettiest place on earth was Baltimore at night
Well a man feels proud to give his woman what she's longing for
And I kinda liked the streets of Baltimore

 

[foggypane]

Well her heart was filled with gladness when she saw those city lights
She said the prettiest place on earth was Baltimore at night
Well a man feels proud to give his woman what she's longing for
And I kinda liked the streets of Baltimore

Look at him, he goes out for a few beers and comes rolling in 6 hours later, drunk and singing. tchoh. Lightweight right wingers.

 

[nino_savatte]

actually this might be better in the world politics forum

No, this thread would be better off in the bin.

 

[rogue yam]

Oh my god, you like the Seahawks. Jumping on the bandwagon?

There's a bandwagon? Who knew? It's all Squealers, all the time around here. Now, I don't mind 'em necessarily. I like Roth..whateverthefuck...berger and Bettis, etc. But I have family in Seattle, it's their first time, they're the underdog, I like Holmgren and Hasselbeck, etc., so what the hey?

 

[mears]

There's a bandwagon? Who knew? It's all Squealers, all the time around here. Now, I don't mind 'em necessarily. I like Roth..whateverthefuck...berger and Bettis, etc. But I have family in Seattle, it's their first time, they're the underdog, I like Holmgren and Hasselbeck, etc., so what the hey?

Thats fine, I was wondering why a guy from California would like Seattle. I really don't care who wins.

 

[mears]

Angela Merkel choosing her words carefully, she "understands" Muslim anger.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000085&sid=aK4KU5L0JXTY&refer=europe