Misogynist barbarians in Alabama impose forced pregnancy law

[krtek a houby]

I‘ve baulked at contacting anyone. I don’t even know what to say,
.

It really is horrible beyond words

 

[Raheem]

How, and why, and who?

American foreign policy is currently run by someone who supports abortion rights.

This is true.

But individual Americans fund campaigning all over the world. It not good for the rest of us that they feel emboldened. It might not seem like an immediate threat in the UK, but for some it might not be so far away.

 

[8ball]

I‘ve baulked at contacting anyone. I don’t even know what to say,
.

I’ve seen messages from American colleagues today and responded to some (mixture of work channels and Facebook), but I haven’t actually spoken to anyone yet (which is quite difficult because my voice isn’t working right now - it leads to more reliance on electronic means).

It was a very quiet day in terms of contact from the US generally.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Having spent significant time in parts of the US that are largely populated by people who support far right polices such as this, it feels dangerous on a fundamental level.

That’s fundamental with a small f

I've spent time in those parts of the US as well, albeit a long time ago now, although I doubt much has changed. I really feel for the good people living there. There are going to be real battles in places like Texas and other parts of the South. All I can really do is offer solidarity from afar. But I still don't think that necessarily has implications for the rest of us.

 

[BristolEcho]

How, and why, and who?

American foreign policy is currently run by someone who supports abortion rights.

I would say a lot of MRA groups, religious groups etc are very good at getting their shit out to the rest of the world and the UK in particular seems particularly vulnerable to this. I worry that there is a lot of money behind this and that a lot of men are listening to the mainstream voices like Rogan, Morgan etc and will find comfort there and look further. I've seen it happen a little bit already to people I know.

I think we are far off of changing abortion rules, but it would be stupid to dismiss the idea completely. There are people in Government now who would be fully behind this and have been in the past. There are many other things they'd like the push back on before then I bet.

 

[8ball]

I would say a lot of MRA groups, religious groups etc are very good at getting their shit out to the rest of the world and the UK in particular seems particularly vulnerable to this. I worry that there is a lot of money behind this and that a lot of men are listening to the mainstream voices like Rogan, Morgan etc and will find comfort there and look further. I've seen it happen a little bit already to people I know.

I think we are far off of changing abortion rules, but it would be stupid to dismiss the idea completely. There are people in Government now who would be fully behind this and have been in the past. There are many other things they'd like the push back on before then I bet.

I think they’d have an awful lot of fights to win before getting to that. I hope so, anyway. I wonder which way the money is moving too. Have read about dark money from Russia to the US far right, and some of it making its way over here.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There are people in Government now who would be fully behind this and have been in the past. There are many other things they'd like the push back on before then I bet.

This bit's not really true. One of the key differences between here and the US is that there is a majority among Tory MPs supporting abortion rights. The main reason it used to get time in the Commons was the efforts of one religious nut Lib Dem.

 

[story]

I've spent time in those parts of the US as well, albeit a long time ago now, although I doubt much has changed. I really feel for the good people living there. There are going to be real battles in places like Texas and other parts of the South. All I can really do is offer solidarity from afar. But I still don't think that necessarily has implications for the rest of us.

You‘re saying that what’s happened won’t have much influence elsewhere, things seem to be going okay in other countries, and that’s lrgely true for this issue.
I wasn’t thinking so much about the rest of us until you said “I wouldn’t extrapolate…” and then I couldn’t help but wonder if and how that might happen. I’m not arguing that it would, or even could.

Just that, since this is such a retrospective step, what else could be dragged back into the dark. It was more a thought experiment triggered by your certainty that it will not have detrimental effects elsewhere,

 

[story]

but also, as BristolEcho says, there are recent precedents for US ideological influence causing tidal shifts elsewhere.

 

[BristolEcho]

I think they’d have an awful lot of fights to win before getting to that. I hope so, anyway. I wonder which way the money is moving too. Have read about dark money from Russia to the US far right, and some of it making its way over here.

I agree absolutely, but I feel the currents are there. Perhaps it's a debate for another thread.

This bit's not really true. One of the key differences between here and the US is that there is a majority among Tory MPs supporting abortion rights. The only reason it used to get time in the Commons was the efforts of one religious nut Lib Dem.

Fair probably worded that wrong, but there are some who would like to see changes to Abortion times etc. Probably on my mind as I was reading about Nadine Dorris earlier career today and it is something she has tried to push before.

I think you're to assured, but I hope you're right.

 

[spring-peeper]

This is true.

But individual Americans fund campaigning all over the world. It not good for the rest of us that they feel emboldened. It might not seem like an immediate threat in the UK, but for some it might not be so far away.

I disagree, revoking abortion rights is not going to be a global trend.

Earlier, someone posted a wiki link showing a global tally of individual country's stand on abortion. The majority of the chart was green: allowed abortion.

I'd like to think that Trudeau's response would be similar to other leaders.

The news coming out of the United States is horrific. My heart goes out to the millions of American women who are now set to lose their legal right to an abortion. I can’t imagine the fear and anger you are feeling right now.
No government, politician, or man should tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. I want women in Canada to know that we will always stand up for your right to choose.

I can understand that most countries saw no need to reassure their people that their laws still stand. To have this basic right revoked is just not an option.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I agree absolutely, but I feel the currents are there. Perhaps it's a debate for another thread.



Fair probably worded that wrong, but there are some who would like to see changes to Abortion times etc. Probably on my mind as I was reading about Nadine Dorris earlier career today and it is something she has tried to push before.

I think you're to assured, but I hope you're right.

David Alton, his name was. He put forward various bills that got nearly zero support. Nadine Dorries is a nutter even among the Tories. She's in government right now, which is pretty mad, granted. I'm not assured about things generally. Just on this narrow point and this particular issue, I don't think what is happening in the US is necessarily pertinent to what might happen elsewhere, especially remembering that, practically speaking, it's only happening to half the US. (Don't mean to downplay how horrible it is for that half.)

 

[pogofish]

That's the same as in the UK, fwiw.

I can remember my mother having to get her work to provide a written statement that she was financially competent because she didn't have a husband to sign-off on something for her as late as the early 1980s.

And another family friend was declined HP on a TV because she was unmarried in IIRC 1983.

 

[8ball]

(Don't mean to downplay how horrible it is for that half.)

I worry about the snitch incentives that might be created to persecute women who cross state lines.

 

[Raheem]

I disagree, revoking abortion rights is not going to be a global trend.

It depends what you mean by "global trend". You're probably relatively safe in Canada.

 

[BristolEcho]

David Alton, his name was. He put forward various bills that got nearly zero support. Nadine Dorries is a nutter even among the Tories. She's in government right now, which is pretty mad, granted. I'm not assured about things generally. Just on this narrow point and this particular issue, I don't think what is happening in the US is necessarily pertinent to what might happen elsewhere, especially remembering that, practically speaking, it's only happening to half the US. (Don't mean to downplay how horrible it is for that half.)

I also appreciate we don't have the same religious dynamics either. I wasn't thinking solely of access to abortion. Just a general concern about the direction of travel and particular groups feeling more emboldened.

Regardless a really shit 48 hours for America. (Again)

 

[Sue]

I've spent time in those parts of the US as well, albeit a long time ago now, although I doubt much has changed. I really feel for the good people living there. There are going to be real battles in places like Texas and other parts of the South. All I can really do is offer solidarity from afar. But I still don't think that necessarily has implications for the rest of us.

Who's us?

I find it hard to believe that this won't have implications outside the US.

 

[pogofish]

Yep. Reaganism, the Moral Majority, etc.

Yes, a lot of the same issues were swirling around then too but the difference I get is that the religious right and their supporters got tired of being courted in the run-up to elections, then largely ignored afterwards.

The difference between then and now to me is that the overturning of Roe vs Wade is the price they have exacted for supporting Trump in 2016 - and they will continue to exact a similar price for other aspects of their agenda through subsequent campaigns for him or other Republican politicians. Trump's background in particular IMO understands/favours transactionalism in a way that few career politicians can deal with.

 

[story]

I worry about the snitch incentives that might be created to persecute women who cross state lines.

Also revenge, coercive control, abusive relationships of all kinds.


And just to acknowledge the beast we’ve none of us mentioned in the last few hours, the horror of backstreet abortions, backstreet anortions gone wrong, and what will be done to those who assist with illegal abortion.

Also, I’m seeing quite a lot of chatter about “safe alternatives, traditional abortificants” and so forth. which sets up yet another arena of concern and danger.

 

[story]

Who's us?

I find it hard to believe that this won't have implications outside the US.

Me too, although I can’t quite put my finger on the detail of this concern.
is it vague existential worry or something more concrete nudging at my awareness.

 

[krtek a houby]

2 women protesters run over at Iowa pro-choice/abortion rights rally

 

[story]

Also revenge, coercive control, abusive relationships of all kinds.


And just to acknowledge the beast we’ve none of us mentioned in the last few hours, the horror of backstreet abortions, backstreet anortions gone wrong, and what will be done to those who assist with illegal abortion.

Also, I’m seeing quite a lot of chatter about “safe alternatives, traditional abortificants” and so forth. which sets up yet another arena of concern and danger.

I‘m guessing legislation will be brought in fairly swiftly to target anyone who works in any way to subvert antiabortion in places where it’s now introduced.

Or existing murder and manslaughter laws will be used?
/ignorant guessing]

 

[story]

2 women protesters run over at Iowa pro-choice/abortion rights rally

This feels horrible and scary

 

[story]

Also revenge, coercive control, abusive relationships of all kinds.


And just to acknowledge the beast we’ve none of us mentioned in the last few hours, the horror of backstreet abortions, backstreet anortions gone wrong, and what will be done to those who assist with illegal abortion.

Also, I’m seeing quite a lot of chatter about “safe alternatives, traditional abortificants” and so forth. which sets up yet another arena of concern and danger.

With no health insurance to cover the medical needs resulting from these illegal abortions..

What a mess

 

[krtek a houby]

And of course, some Republican shits are very outspoken against violent protests (this time, oddly)

 

[story]

I don’t think I can hate these fuckers any more than I do, and then they prove me wrong.

 

[spring-peeper]

It depends what you mean by "global trend". You're probably relatively safe in Canada.

Global trend - the trend of most countries in the world.

I don't think Canada is safe - hence the prime minister's statement.
It was to tell Canadians that as long as he (his party) is in power, women have the right to chose to abort.

 

[story]

Global trend - the trend of most countries in the world.

I don't think Canada is safe - hence the prime minister's statement.
It was to tell Canadians that as long as he (his party) is in power, women have the right to chose to abort.

Could the right be overturned as it was in the US? Or is it an enshrined /codified in law?

 

[spring-peeper]

And of course, some Republican shits are very outspoken against violent protests (this time, oddly)

I wonder if it has something to do with this sentiment I keep seeing on the facebook.

 

[spring-peeper]

Could the right be overturned as it was in the US? Or is it an enshrined /codified in law?

I don't know if it is a "law". Even laws can be overturned.

Trudeau made those people running under the Liberal umbrella sign that they would never vote to have abortion rights controlled. Most provinces (health care is provincial) support the woman's right to chose. The exception to signing the pledge was given to PEI candidates, their province still restricted access. But that was ages ago, and I'm fairly certain that PEI now aligns itself with the rest of the county.

Right wing conservatives (tories) still want a debate on the issue. If they get into power, who knows what would happen.

eta: Just saw this one

'It feels so good': Alberta MP celebrates overturning of Roe v. Wade

A Member of Parliament from rural Alberta went live on Facebook Friday to celebrate a United States Supreme Court vote to end constitutional protections for abortion.

edmonton.ctvnews.ca

"The pro-life movement in the United States has been working hard on this for generations and it feels so good to have a win."

The MP went on to call abortion in Canada the "greatest human rights tragedy of our time."

"Three-hundred babies die everyday in Canada and this is something that is a terrible human rights tragedy," he said.

"People are coerced into having abortions. There should be no forced abortions in this country."