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Misogynist barbarians in Alabama impose forced pregnancy law

If this has been widened out to be the thread to discuss Roe v Wade, maybe a title rejig might be in order?

Have we had all the stuff about people arming themselves yet? I know we shouldn’t take the temperature of a society from Twitter, but still. Things seem heated across there .

 
frogwoman said:




Shit the US leftist pundit class has a lot of borderline red brown grifters
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There are things that Nathan Robinson (no relation) can be genuinely criticised for - his employment practices for example - but that tweet is taking the article out of context. It never says a woman 'shouldn't be allowed to choose'. In fact, it says the opposite - it rejects any compromise positions on a woman's legal right to abortion. The part highlighted is about whether there are ever any reasons to abort a fetus - because of their race, gender or disability for example - that can be criticised.
 
danny la rouge said:
If this has been widened out to be the thread to discuss Roe v Wade, maybe a title rejig might be in order?

Have we had all the stuff about people arming themselves yet? I know we shouldn’t take the temperature of a society from Twitter, but still. Things seem heated across there .

Click to expand...


Personally, I think every adult should have a basic knowledge of firearms in the US. If for no other reason than you should know how to unload it safely, if you caught a child with one, or found one somewhere. This isn't likely, even in the US, but if you needed that knowledge, you'd have it.
 
The BBC in typical fashion has totally gone 'both sides' on this issue giving equal weight and credence to a minority view. Even giving airtime to a UK-based anti-abortionist on the 'Today' programme who represents a view held by only 9% of the country and who, at the very end of the interview, tried to disingenuously tie in the rights of the fetus to disability rights when the topic briefly veered into terminations due to profound disability. On the US side of things, they gave equal weight with a 50-50 split of 6 US voters on the topic. Fucking dismal.
 
This guy thinks the Republicans are the dog that caught a car:



I've felt in the past that abortion is an issue the Republican use to pull in votes when their policies actually hurt their base. If you look at the red states, they're the ones who are going to be most affected by this ruling. If you overlay a map of where abortion is illegal once Roe v. Wade is overruled, it overlaps well with places with the highest levels of maternal death, poor outcomes for newborns, poverty, teen pregnancy, and just about last on any list of wellbeing. This ruling isn't going to help any of those stats and will make them substantially worse.
 
Nylock said:
The BBC in typical fashion has totally gone 'both sides' on this issue giving equal weight and credence to a minority view. Even giving airtime to a UK-based anti-abortionist on the 'Today' programme who represents a view held by only 9% of the country and who, at the very end of the interview, tried to disingenuously tie in the rights of the fetus to disability rights when the topic briefly veered into terminations due to profound disability. On the US side of things, they gave equal weight with a 50-50 split of 6 US voters on the topic. Fucking dismal.
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This is more general feeling but it's always seemed to me that while the US has a faction with horrible views on abortion (and other issues) at least they also have a vocal movement that is actually decent. I remember hearing a while ago that the US spends a lot on abortion research, ie how to make it safe as possible for women. Of course unfortunately one side often suddenly becomes louder than the other half.

While conversely it seems many in the UK sit in 'the middle', we get more of a bleak compromise where we're just doing what we have to to deal with this necessary evil, and the underlying ideologies are pretty regressive. We don't really have abortion on demand here either, with the 2 Dr's bullshit for example. And there's no real space given for voices who want to challenge that (unlike in US).
 
Think it's like banning fox hunting.
Blair put it on the ticket as a sop no fan of fox torturing but knowing it would be a complete mare to get through.
Like gay marriage and equalling the age of consent so much noise and mayhem.

Much like when the lib dems pointed out you can have sex at 16 but if you filmed yourself having sex at 16 you'd be committing an offence if you watched yourself🙄.

Anyone in the power to make abortion on demand legal would face a biblical shit storm from moral guardians🙄. Although pointing out priests are against abortion as they want more victims.
 
bluescreen said:
Fair enough. Women do get impatient, though, when men can't see their problem. I can't speak for others but most people in charge in the UK and the west generally are, in fact, still white men. That doesn't mean white men, or men generally, are to blame for it, just that it's harder for them to see the problems other people have to deal with because the system is generally and historically designed to favour the dominant class, so they take things for granted the way fish take water for granted.
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Perhaps if men were barred from legislating on issues which purely pertain to women, and vice versa. That said I'm struggling to think of anything that affects men that would require separate legislation.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
This guy thinks the Republicans are the dog that caught a car:



I've felt in the past that abortion is an issue the Republican use to pull in votes when their policies actually hurt their base. If you look at the red states, they're the ones who are going to be most affected by this ruling. If you overlay a map of where abortion is illegal once Roe v. Wade is overruled, it overlaps well with places with the highest levels of maternal death, poor outcomes for newborns, poverty, teen pregnancy, and just about last on any list of wellbeing. This ruling isn't going to help any of those stats and will make them substantially worse.
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Looking at the numbers, it's specifically white evangelical protestants among whom there is a majority against all abortion (and a large majority at that). Among nearly all other demographics, there's a majority in favour of at least some abortion rights.

I don't have the links to hand, but I read a while ago a fascinating piece about the history of r/w evangelical churches and the way that the right coopted them into their cause in the 70s and 80s. It was that way around, essentially - right wingers coopting religion rather than religious people coopting the right wing. I may try to dig it out when I have the time.
 
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Yuwipi Woman said:
This guy thinks the Republicans are the dog that caught a car:



I've felt in the past that abortion is an issue the Republican use to pull in votes when their policies actually hurt their base. If you look at the red states, they're the ones who are going to be most affected by this ruling. If you overlay a map of where abortion is illegal once Roe v. Wade is overruled, it overlaps well with places with the highest levels of maternal death, poor outcomes for newborns, poverty, teen pregnancy, and just about last on any list of wellbeing. This ruling isn't going to help any of those stats and will make them substantially worse.
Click to expand...


Here's the other one that he made in the same vein - again, worth watching and again, makes a more than valid point

 
Yuwipi Woman said:
This guy thinks the Republicans are the dog that caught a car:



I've felt in the past that abortion is an issue the Republican use to pull in votes when their policies actually hurt their base. If you look at the red states, they're the ones who are going to be most affected by this ruling. If you overlay a map of where abortion is illegal once Roe v. Wade is overruled, it overlaps well with places with the highest levels of maternal death, poor outcomes for newborns, poverty, teen pregnancy, and just about last on any list of wellbeing. This ruling isn't going to help any of those stats and will make them substantially worse.
Click to expand...

As per the video, if the Dems have any sort of backbone and fight in them, they'd pummel the republicans about this issue every day up to and beyond the midterms... The one glimmer of hope from this obscenity is that it ends up royally fucking the republicans moving forwards and that it hastens the codification of Roe into law.
 
Nylock said:
As per the video, if the Dems have any sort of backbone and fight in them, they'd pummel the republicans about this issue every day up to and beyond the midterms... The one glimmer of hope from this obscenity is that it ends up royally fucking the republicans moving forwards and that it hastens the codification of Roe into law.
Click to expand...

They don't have a backbone though. I'm almost convinced they only exist to give the illusion of opposition.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Looking at the numbers, it's specifically white evangelical protestants among whom there is a majority against all abortion (and a large majority at that). Among nearly all other demographics, there's a majority in favour of at least some abortion rights.

I don't have the links to hand, but I read a while ago a fascinating piece about the history of r/w evangelical churches and the way that the right coopted them into their cause in the 70s and 80s. It was that way around, essentially - right wingers coopting religion rather than religious people coopting the right wing. I may try to dig it out when I have the time.
Click to expand...

That is quite odd, because it is the Roman Catholic church in the UK that is most anti-abortion. It ties in with their belief that a fertilised egg is a person.
 
Sasaferrato said:
That is quite odd, because it is the Roman Catholic church in the UK that is most anti-abortion. It ties in with their belief that a fertilised egg is a person.
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Polls vary a little, but they all tell essentially the same story. Catholics are split roughly 50:50. Evangelicals (plus Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses) are the group in which anti-abortion views are in a significant majority and strongly held. And generally the more religiously active you are, the more likely you are to be anti-abortion.

Religious Landscape Study


Many predominantly Catholic countries around the world have been liberalising their abortion laws over the last few years (with the odd one like Poland going the other way).
 
This is making the rounds on my facebook feed:

I'm not pro-murdering babies.
I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.
I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.
I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.
I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.
I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her.
I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.
I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.
I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail.
I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child.
I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.
I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.
You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:
I'm pro-life.
Their lives.
Women's lives.
You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.
Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
Personally, I think every adult should have a basic knowledge of firearms in the US. If for no other reason than you should know how to unload it safely, if you caught a child with one, or found one somewhere. This isn't likely, even in the US, but if you needed that knowledge, you'd have it.
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You must be right. I hate the NRA and that whole right-wing gun obsessive scene, but if I lived in the US I'd want to know how to use various weapons, and to own a gun. I know it's controversial over here, but honestly if you don't have a lot of social capital, surely it's a good idea to be able to defend yourself somehow.
 
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