frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
They're coming for gay marriage and even contraceptives
Misogynist barbarians in Alabama impose forced pregnancy law
- Thread starter Jeff Robinson
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there's a useful 2016 article on the history of the anti-abortion movement in america at Abolishing Abortion: The History of the Pro-Life Movement in America | The American Historian
one thing i've seen (aware anecdote not great evidence) is that a lot of the people who turn out on demonstrations against abortion are women themselves: so it's not simply 'a bunch of white guys wanting to punish women'. making out it's only men (namoc) who want to impose this is simply bollocks as you can see from this chart, where about 20% of american women want to see abortion illegal under all circumstances, and a larger proportion want to see sadly unspecified conditions on the availability of abortion:
Abortion Trends by Gender
This page outlines Gallup's long-term trends on Americans' views about abortion by gender.
news.gallup.com
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
There are always some women who go along with suppressing women, whether they're FGM cutters, Magdalen Laundry nuns or surrendered wives. It's a feature of patriarchy.there's a useful 2016 article on the history of the anti-abortion movement in america at Abolishing Abortion: The History of the Pro-Life Movement in America | The American Historian
one thing i've seen (aware anecdote not great evidence) is that a lot of the people who turn out on demonstrations against abortion are women themselves: so it's not simply 'a bunch of white guys wanting to punish women'. making out it's only men (namoc) who want to impose this is simply bollocks as you can see from this chart, where about 20% of american women want to see abortion illegal under all circumstances, and a larger proportion want to see sadly unspecified conditions on the availability of abortion:
View attachment 321022
Abortion Trends by Gender
This page outlines Gallup's long-term trends on Americans' views about abortion by gender.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
5 (or 6?) unelected fanatical ideologues - 3 of whom were appointed by a serial rapist and borderline pedophile and one of whom is accused of attempted rape themselves - rule to force rape victims to carry the rapist’s child to term.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Yes, the patriarchy is so massive it's like looking at the top of a huge building that you're standing right next to. You barely notice it until you do. It's like the Truman Show or something. For some women it's not possible to believe it's really there at all. I like to think of these women as 'in my day we just slapped them' women. In homage to my mother in law.There are always some women who go along with suppressing women, whether they're FGM cutters, Magdalen Laundry nuns or surrendered wives. It's a feature of patriarchy.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i think if you asked women opposed to abortion why they held the views they do and put it to them that it's because they're brainwashed or unwitting partisans of the patriarchy they'd take umbrage at your suggestion.There are always some women who go along with suppressing women, whether they're FGM cutters, Magdalen Laundry nuns or surrendered wives. It's a feature of patriarchy.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Of course they would. That doesn't mean they arrived at their opinions quite independently of their culture. They probably think I'm acculturated to unbridled hedonism.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i'm very disappointed by your suggestion that you're not
Cloo
Banana for scale
Abortion wasn't even a big US Christian issue until wannabe film maker thought it'd make for a visually striking subject for documentary of his dad's Christian thought according to this (fascinating) Jon Ronson podcast BBC Radio 4 - Things Fell Apart, 1. 1000 Dolls
8ball
#notallwomenz
Yeah, that was a v interesting podcast.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
I dunno, even if that documentary had never been made, attempts to control women's bodies against their will go back further than that.
Cloo
Banana for scale
mojo pixy
interesting times
That article's actually quite interesting. It looks less like its about women who 'surrender' to their husbands' whims etc, more like wives empowering themselves by focusing on their own wellbeing instead of trying to control everything their husbands do. Realising that they were driving their own relationships to unhappy places by being overwhelmingly controlling and critical, and deciding to ease off. I'm not sure why it's lumped in with FGM and Magdalen laundries.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I guess the problematic aspect of it is how its framed (not so much in that article but iirc in the book of the same title) in a religious and anti feminist way. You could probably get that advice from self help books rather than calling yourself a surrendered wife and framing it as being biblically based etc (which might well be what that person is doing there, idk anything about the author of the article)
mojo pixy
interesting times
Yes, I think the term 'surrendered' is problematic, and IMO gives an entirely false impression of the dynamic at work. However it's a term I'd never encountered before just now so I'm still working through the ramifications in mind.
Giving up trying to control a partner's thoughts words or deeds seems like a good idea that will help any relationship, as long as it's voluntary not coerced.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I'm not certain there's a better way to choose them. Elected judges are also an abomination.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I've seen it argued that roe v wade has been keeping the US in a state of perpetual jeopardy wrt abortion rights. It allows Republicans to take extreme positions safe in the knowledge that, if elected, they won't be allowed to act on those positions. And it has reduced the incentive to pass laws that will codify the rights properly.
Things will get messy if it's struck down, but Bernie Sanders has it right when he calls for the immediate passing of a law by Congress. Should have been done a long time ago.
Things will get messy if it's struck down, but Bernie Sanders has it right when he calls for the immediate passing of a law by Congress. Should have been done a long time ago.
'Messy' doesn't really begin to cover it, eh?
mojo pixy
interesting times
It does give the impression that a relationship is a kind of conflict or battle, that either party can win, lose, or 'surrender'. Which (crap jokes aside) is a very unhealthy way of framing eg a marriage or friendship anyway.
rubbershoes
not the only raver in the village
Elected would be worse, for sure.
In the UK, judges are appointed by the Ministry of Justice. They are interviewed by existing judges about their approach to problem solving etc. It's just like a normal job interview except to get a job as a senior judge, you need some years judicial experience at a lower level. High Court judges can apply to be Appeal court judges when there is a vacancy. And they can apply to be Supreme Court judges when there is a vacancy.
Political considerations don't arise. It's simply merit based
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
It's not so simple though. I know women who hold these views (because I had a religious upbringing), and they genuinely feel that the evil non-Christian world has sanctioned the killing of babies. They're not trying to control other people, they're trying to save children from mass infanticide. They feel extremely sad about all the babies killed and dedicate themselves to ending the murder.There are always some women who go along with suppressing women, whether they're FGM cutters, Magdalen Laundry nuns or surrendered wives. It's a feature of patriarchy.
The arguments against this position are usually technical ones about when a fetus becomes conscious and so on. I do think a lot of that misses the point. Firstly, we can't objectively decide when a baby becomes a human, because really this is a socially determined decision. Many cultures by practicing post-birth infanticide have essentially declared that someone is not a human until they are socialised as human. We find leaving babies out to die in the bush as shocking as anti-abortion campaigners find abortion. It's quite difficult to objectively declare that anyone is right on this. Secondly, the dislike of abortion among many women is deeply emotionally felt, so these arguments about when consciousness is achieved just cut no mustard at all. What they've done is prioritised their emotional feelings for innocent babies over their emotional feelings for women whose 'mistakes' make them less instantly lovable. And every person in Britain who finds dogs more lovable than people (quite a lot in my experience) is doing the same thing. It's quite easy to love 'innocence' over the messiness of human adulthood.
For the record I am in favour of the current guidelines in most developed countries for when a fetus/baby becomes a human, but to some extent it's a utilitarian decision about how best to reduce suffering. That seems very cold to some people, particularly if the preacher told them a human begins from when the sperm meets the egg. The preacher's intentions may well be about control, but I don't believe that's the main thing that causes anti-abortion feeling to propagate itself among women.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
That wouldn't work in the US. We have a right-wing lawyer's association that grooms judges in the US called the Federalist Society. If judges were appointed in that manner, the Federalist Society would make sure to appoint their own members. I think we need a liberal association of judges to counter to them to balance power.
<edited to add>
I don't believe politics doesn't enter into it on your side of the pond either. It may be more subtle, but I'm sure its there.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
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