sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Have you read the articles? . Death rates were much higher for illegitimate children, why was that?
mass grave of 800 infants found at Galway 'fallen women' home
- Thread starter weepiper
- Start date
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
"I have always felt a certain horror of political economists since I heard one of them say he feared the famine of 1848 in Ireland would not kill more than a million people, and that would scarcely be enough to do any good. (Benjamin Jowett, referring to Nassau Senior, economic adviser, 1848)"
Nothing was done.
Absolutely nothing.
The schools in uk should teach the history of British rule .... the truth that is.
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Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Which bit says it was Pitt's idea?
Ld222
Active Member
An excerpt from a 'James Connolly' piece written in 1897, still as relevant today as it was then!!
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
Because they were shoved together in a home and disease spread like wildfire.
Because like the majority of irish children they were not well nourished.
Because they didn't have cures for typhoid fever, measles and tb.
Don't dare suggest that I am in any way excusing the religious orders.
I'm firmly of the belief that government and church are fully to blame for all atrocities that occured.....both for the irish people who were neglected and left to die during famine times and the infants who died in the care of the state under the management of religious orders
Ld222
Active Member
Are you denying that there was 'ethnic cleansing' in Ireland during 'the great hunger'??.
That the establishment was letting a mass of the Irish people starve because they where not right thinking (subordinate)
The eviction party
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Are you denying that there was 'ethnic cleansing' in Ireland during 'the great hunger'??.
That the establishment was letting a mass of the Irish people starve because they where not right thinking (subordinate)
The eviction party
There aren't any photographs of the famine. That pic is from the land war, or from the later 19th century at any rate.
And yes, I am 'denying' that the famine was a deliberate attempt at genocide, however criminally culpable the Westminster regime may have been in allowing it to happen, and to continue.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the deliberate and planned extermination of entire 'races' or cultures is genocide. The starvation and murder by proxy for profit is just capitalism.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Yeah, what Kimble said.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
That's a relief, It's England's fault!
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
if you want to be really fancy you can say that genocide is carried out because what the people are, capitalism kills them for what they aren't
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
"We are worked harder and worse treated than the slaves in the colonies. I understand that they are taken care of by their masters when they are sick or old. When we are sick, we must die on the road, if the neighbors do not help us. When we are old, we must go out to beg, if the young ones cannot help us, and that will soon happen with us all; we are getting worse and worse every day, and the landlords are kicking us out of every little holding we have. God knows what will happen to this country! (James McMahon, a labourer from County Clare, 1834)."
Tell that to the 1,500,000 who starved to death while food left Ireland for the UK.
Tell that to the 2,000,000 who left ireland in search of a better life and a third died en route.
The British government knew exactly what they were doing.
Tell that to the 1,500,000 who starved to death while food left Ireland for the UK.
Tell that to the 2,000,000 who left ireland in search of a better life and a third died en route.
The British government knew exactly what they were doing.
Ld222
Active Member
A fairly capitalist/libertarian point of view, I take it, you see people as mere commodities!!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Get out now Idris.
Working backwards through the thread, it is all this stuff for the last few days?
Working backwards through the thread, it is all this stuff for the last few days?
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
That reminds me, I must pick up a couple of red-headed step children on my way home. Got to keep up that slapping practice - it's great cardio you know.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
yes, they were maximising profits while undermining the structures of the societies they exploited in order to sustain cheap labour. The irish-as-ape stuff was concomitant. If it hadn't been profitable or strategic it wouldn't have been done. Genocide is carried out- often beyond the realms of profitability or strategic gain- because the state enacting it wants an entire culture wiped out.
Ld222
Active Member
Did you read the quote?, clearly you don't understand it. Click the link and read the article in it's entirety, you never know you might even learn something!!!
trashpony
Hag
Since last night. Dull as
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
i dunno, i think we can see te British government as being basically responsible for the famine. whether it was planned or ignored is pretty much a moot point.
not sure we can see the british government as being basically responsible for catholic nuns shoving dead babies in a septic tank in 1950 though. i can't even blame that on Thatcher, as much as i'd like to.
not sure we can see the british government as being basically responsible for catholic nuns shoving dead babies in a septic tank in 1950 though. i can't even blame that on Thatcher, as much as i'd like to.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Ta, shall save it till later then. Bit disappointing if it's gone incurably that way.
trashpony
Hag
Typhoid vaccine - invented 1896
TB vaccine - 1921
The home was in operation between 1925 and 1961
The measles vaccine was the only one that was invented post the home's closure.
Ld222
Active Member
Greed, laissez faire policies, Maggie Thatcher and General Pinochet eat your heart out!!!
Ld222
Active Member
Them children will grow up someday!!
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I don't see it as a moot point- I think it's pretty important to distinguish between famines like the irish or the bengali caused in the pursuit of money at the expense of those considered less than human, and actual extermination carried out because the people doing the killing consider their victims a virus on humanity.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
i see what you mean, thinking about it. do you think it's relevant context to the subject then? this is not really my field.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I do yeah- these women and their children were basically declared and treated as untermensch, but not through overt agency but by religious and social structures. It's horrific and I'm not trying to establish a hierarchy of wrongness here but it is a different thing to the overt. These things were done, but they were done quietly and with complicity at all levels. I think thats different from an entirely top down approach to slaughter.
e2a
and wrt deliberate famines they are capitalisms culpability but at one hand removed. Its just the markets eh. Set conditions for, rather than actively kill.
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bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
It was opportunistic mass murder.
The british government discussed how the land would be cleared once the irish died.
"There is such a tendency to exaggeration and inaccuracy in Irish reports that delay in acting on them is always desirable. (Sir Robert Peel, Prime Minister, October 1845)."
"Ireland is threatened with a thing that is read of in history and in distant countries, but scarcely in our own land and time – a famine. Whole fields of the root have rotted in the ground, and many a family sees its sole provision for the year destroyed. (The Spectator, October 1845)"
They were left to die ... the policy of the government was "laissez faire"
"The Act passed in March of 1846 “to make temporary provision for the Relief of destitute poor persons afflicted with fever in Ireland” is allowed to expire; the Central Board of Health is closed, and the extra medical officers who had been engaged are dismissed (31 August 1846)"
2 years on someone decided it was time to speak out...
"The time will come when we shall know what the amount of mortality has been; and though you may groan, and try to keep the truth down, it shall be known, and the time will come when the public and the world will be able to estimate, at its proper value, your management of the affairs of Ireland. (Lord Bentinck, in the House of Commons, 1847)"
"It is my opinion that too much has been done for the people. Under such treatment the people have grown worse instead of better, and we must now try what independent exertion can do. (Charles Trevelyan, 1847)"
"Enough (wheat, oats, barley, bere, rye, and beans) has been gathered in the past harvest to feed double the number of people actually existing in Ireland for a period of twelve months. But this is only a small fragment of the marvel; there were green crops enough to feed 4,000,000 of human beings; and all this is exclusive of the stock of cattle, sheep, pigs, and poultry. (The Evening Mail, 1847)"
"The real difficulty lies with the people themselves. They are always in the mud…their idleness and helplessness can hardly be believed. (Lord Clarendon, September 1847)"
"
If this [exodus] goes on, as it is likely to go on…the United States will become very Irish….So an Ireland there will still be, but on a colossal scale, and in a new world. We must gird our loins to encounter the Nemesis of seven centuries’ misgovernment. To the end of time a hundred million spread over the largest havitable area in the world, and, confronting us everywhere by sea and land, will remember that their forefathers paid tithe to the Protestant clergy, rent to absentee landlords, and a forced obedience to the laws which these had made. (The Times, quoted in The Nation, May 1860)"
"A million and half men, women and children were carefully, prudently and peacefully slain by the English Government. They died of hunger in the midst of abundance which their own hands created; and it is quite immaterial to distinguish those who perished in the agonies of famine itself from those who died of typhus fever, which in Ireland is always caused by famine….The Almighty indeed sent the potato blight, but the English created the Famine. (John Mitchel in 1861)"
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
Are you that thick as to think that the tb vaccine was in use in an impoverished country that could barely afford to put food on the table?
Jesus what ignorance there is...
I've already told you ireland was in extreme poverty. People were dying of tb up to the late 60's.
My own mum's family ... 3 of the children got tb. My dad's ...2 of them got tb. They were all sent to sanitoriums for months and months. People died there. Many people died.
What the fuck has the date of the invention of vaccines to do with anything ??
Nobody had access to them.
FFS.....reality was not the same over here as in the UK
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Yes, that's exactly what happened.
France had just declared war on Britain. The catholics of Ireland had no rights and were starting to join the United Irishmen who had sided with France, so Maynoth was funded, catholics were 'allowed' to vote (if they had enough land) and in return they were expected to join the fight against France and grass on any members of the United Irishmen.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
The Church wasn't in extreme poverty though was it. The Church was doing quite nicely thanks. The Church was being paid to look after those children and it didn't.
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