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mass grave of 800 infants found at Galway 'fallen women' home

From the same site...

"Who we work with
Our service users are men and women who have experienced sexual abuse. The context of the abuse is widespread as reflected by our 2010 therapy clients: familial (45%), clerical and institutional (27%), community (19%), professionals (7%), strangers (2%)."
 


A bit more background into circumstances which let this and other episodes like it happen in Ireland.


International Socialism, Summer 2001



Goretti Horgan
Changing women’s lives in Ireland


From International Socialism 2:91, Summer 2001.
Copyright © International Socialism.
Copied with thanks from the International Socialism Archive.
Marked up by Einde O’Callaghan for ETOL.



Until the last few years of the 1990s Ireland had the reputation of being the most sexually repressed country in Europe, where women were second class citizens and the Catholic church ruled virtually unchallenged. But things have changed fast. A national survey in 1973–1974 found that three out of four people thought sex outside marriage was always wrong. A survey in 1997 found that 21 to 24 year olds had, on average, had 13 different sexual partners. [1] In 1990 Dublin’s Virgin Megastore was fined £500 for selling condoms. In 1999 the Dublin government spent £500,000 promoting the use of condoms.[2] While Gordon Brown felt it necessary to get married to enhance his chances of becoming prime minister in Britain, the Irish taoiseach (prime minister), Bertie Ahern, lives openly with his (unmarried) partner who accompanies him on state visits as ‘first lady’.

The point of this article is to argue that these changes have come about not, as media commentators would have it, because of EU-inspired liberalisation nor, as feminists would have it, solely because of ‘the women’s movement’. Rather change has been generated mainly by shifts in patterns of production. In short, it is changes in capitalism that have led to changes in women’s lives, the family and attitudes to sex and sexuality.

Marxists argue that women’s oppression is rooted in our role in the reproduction of the next generation of workers. The way reproduction is organised depends on the way production is organised – women’s oppression can be ended only by overthrowing capitalism and bringing production under workers’ control. [3] The story of Ireland in the last 20 years shows there is nothing abstract about this analysis. It also shows the intervention of socialists can be crucial in ensuring progress.

Despite Ireland being synonymous with sexual repression, there was never anything ‘Irish’ or inevitable about it. The reason women’s rights were so lacking can be traced to changes in the form of the family, and to the way reproduction was organised from the middle of the 19th century.


Read the rest of this article by clicking the link

http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/isj2/2001/isj2-091/horgan.htm
 
Goretti also points out that the famine devastated the country and had a profound influence on the survivors and their offspring. ..
I quoted her full article earlier in the thread.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
And as one lady said to me, "if one in every four is abused could it mean that another one in four is an abuser?"
I can't tell whether you're suggesting that one in every four people is an abuser? or one in four abused people go on to abuse?
 
I can't tell whether you're suggesting that one in every four people is an abuser? or one in four abused people go on to abuse?


I wasn't suggesting anything.
I've posted a link to the one in four site. Have a look for yourself at their site. They are very well known in Eire for their work, their research and their counselling services for sexually abused people.
 
it was the part of your post I quoted that I was specifically questioning; not the work that one in four do, or their website.
 
Either way it's a nonsense claim.
I didn't make any claim. I quoted someone who asked me a question....
I think it is a valid question. ..if 1 in 4 are abused in Ireland, is it not beyond the bounds of possibility to wonder what percentage of abusers there may be in the population? It could be anything from 1 in 4 to 1 in 8 to 1 in 16....Or do you think it's a small group of individuals who abuse? I'd like to see what research there might be on that.

Considering that the sexual abuse figures reported by 1 in 4 are that sexual abuse is :

45% familial
27% religious
19% community
7% professional
2% strangers.
 
Goretti also points out that the famine devastated the country and had a profound influence on the survivors and their offspring. ..
I quoted her full article earlier in the thread.

Thats a bit of understatement to say the least!!!

The article clearly show how ruling elites used every tool in their arsenal, using religion/potato blight to completely dominate/subordinate an entire people.

It would be really interesting to know how much of hand the 'British ruling elite' had in establishing 'Maynooth'.

The stark differences between the progressive, revolutionary priests before and during the penal times and how ultra conservative they become after the establishment of 'Maynooth' and the lifting of the penal laws afterwords is startling .
 
Thats a bit of understatement to say the least!!!

The article clearly show how ruling elites used every tool in their arsenal, using religion/potato blight to completely dominate/subordinate an entire people.

It would be really interesting to know how much of hand the 'British ruling elite' had in establishing 'Maynooth'.

The stark differences between the progressive, revolutionary priests before and during the penal times and how ultra conservative they become after the establishment of 'Maynooth' and the lifting of the penal laws afterwords is startling .

Yes...her full article is very informative. I didn't go into detail as I've already referenced it twice now in this thread and also sinopsised it. But here it is again :)

It's worthy of a read.

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj91/horgan.htm
 
fucking patriarchy and fucking religion man.

just fuck these people removing all human value from women :(

'These people' removed value from an entire people, Men, Women and children alike.

It is worth noting that It was during the 'reign' of a women, 'Queen Victoria' that the one worst atrocities in Ireland 'an Gorta mór/the great hunger' occurred which allowed this reactionary element of the 'Catholic church' get a foothold and go on to dominate the people of Ireland.
 
'These people' removed value from an entire people, Men, Women and children alike.

It is worth noting that It was during the 'reign' of a women, 'Queen Victoria' that the one worst atrocities in Ireland 'an Gorta mór/the great hunger' occurred which allowed this reactionary element of the 'Catholic church' get a foothold and go on to dominate the people of Ireland.
In fairness, she did donate £2000 to the famine relief fund... then proceeded to feast on a £5,000 banquet when she came to wave at the starving millions.
 
'These people' removed value from an entire people, Men, Women and children alike.

It is worth noting that It was during the 'reign' of a women, 'Queen Victoria' that the one worst atrocities in Ireland 'an Gorta mór/the great hunger' occurred which allowed this reactionary element of the 'Catholic church' get a foothold and go on to dominate the people of Ireland.

It was one of the WORLD's worst atrocities. Ship loads of food leaving the country for England while over a million irish died of starvation. The British government let it happen as did queen victoria. The Irish were slaves to the empire and disposable. They were left to rot in workhouses if they were lucky enough to get into one. They were given soup in soup kitchens if they swore allegiance to the Queen and changed from catholicism to protestantism. Over 1,000,000 died of hunger whilst markets were full of irish produce only to be sold to the wealthy or exported to england.
Trevalyan and others in the government refused to allow assistance because it would upset the market. So millions dying and ill were left to die or try to get away.

"A million and half men, women and children were carefully, prudently and peacefully slain by the English Government. They died of hunger in the midst of abundance which their own hands created; and it is quite immaterial to distinguish those who perished in the agonies of famine itself from those who died of typhus fever, which in Ireland is always caused by famine….The Almighty indeed sent the potato blight, but the English created the Famine. (John Mitchel in 1861)"
 
I didn't make any claim. I quoted someone who asked me a question....
I think it is a valid question. ..if 1 in 4 are abused in Ireland, is it not beyond the bounds of possibility to wonder what percentage of abusers there may be in the population? It could be anything from 1 in 4 to 1 in 8 to 1 in 16....Or do you think it's a small group of individuals who abuse? I'd like to see what research there might be on that.

Considering that the sexual abuse figures reported by 1 in 4 are that sexual abuse is :

45% familial
27% religious
19% community
7% professional
2% strangers.
I read your post the same as tufty79 in that it seemed to be suggesting that if 1 on 4 people are abused then 1 in 4 people are abusers, or that all those who are abused become abusers. Both these claims are nonsense. If that is not what you meant the fair enough.
 
I read your post the same as tufty79 in that it seemed to be suggesting that if 1 on 4 people are abused then 1 in 4 people are abusers, or that all those who are abused become abusers. Both these claims are nonsense. If that is not what you meant the fair enough.

I quoted a comment made to me.
When I heard it I certainly didn't assume she meant the abused were abusers. Nor did I assume that one in four were abusers.
I understood her to imply the need for further investigation to ascertain the truth.
That is the point.....
 
'These people' removed value from an entire people, Men, Women and children alike.

It is worth noting that It was during the 'reign' of a women, 'Queen Victoria' that the one worst atrocities in Ireland 'an Gorta mór/the great hunger' occurred which allowed this reactionary element of the 'Catholic church' get a foothold and go on to dominate the people of Ireland.

please explain further?
 
the myth of gender solidarity- she was at the pinnacle of an empire at its height. Thats fuck you everyone below aristo rank, regardless. As well to point out that thatch was a woman and expect that to be taken as a progressive leader.
 
THE TUAM TANK: ANOTHER MYTH ABOUT EVIL IRELAND
BRENDAN O’NEILL
EDITOR

The obsession with Ireland’s dark past has officially become unhinged.

For proof of the maxim that ‘A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on’, look no further than the Tuam 800 dead babies story. Courtesy of a modern media that seems more interested in titillating readers with gorno than giving us cool facts, and thanks to a Twittermob constantly on the hunt for things it might feel ostentatiously outraged by, the story about babies being dumped in an old, out-of-use septic tank by nuns at a home for ‘fallen women’ in Tuam in Galway made waves in every corner of the globe. Then, a few days later, having finally strapped its boots on, the truth - or at least a more sober analysis of what might have really happened in Tuam - staggered on to the stage. And it was a very different story to the fact-lite, fury-heavy tale that had already gone round the world.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...er-myth-about-evil-ireland/15140#.U5Y5T3JdXYo
 
Women who found themselves pregnant outside of marriage were treated in this abominable, state-sanctioned, widespread way because it was another woman's fault.

Actually if you read the article I posted by Goretti Horgan, you will find that in Ireland,

"before the famine attitudes to sex remained open, were often earthy, and celebrated women’s sexuality as well as men’s
The Midnight Court, a long poem written in Irish in 1780–1781, described an imagined court of women putting the men of Ireland on trial for being useless in bed. The poem, banned in its English translations until the last decades of the 20th century, gives some insight into attitudes to women’s sexuality. Here an older woman laments the plight of a younger sister, married to an old man with no interest in sex:"

"Line by line she bade him linger
With gummy lips and groping finger,
Gripping his thighs in wild embrace
Rubbing her brush from knee to waist
Stripping him bare to the cold night air,
Everything done with love and care.
But she’d nothing to show for all her labour;
There wasn’t a jump in the old deceiver."


"The idea of women controlling their fertility was not the taboo subject it was to become. There was a folktale about St Brigid – supposedly a contemporary of St Patrick – who was renowned for her work with fertility in all its forms. Brigid met a young woman distressed because she was pregnant: ‘Brigid prayed, then she blessed the woman, laid hands on her womb, and the foetus miraculously disappeared’."

http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/isj2/2001/isj2-091/horgan.htm

It was only at the height British colonial brutality in Ireland, while a woman was at the helm of the British empire, that rights of Irish women went into serious decline.

The 'elite' where seizing control of the next generation of labour in Ireland. This wasn't about a battle of the 'sexes', it's was about reinforcing the 'class' system!!
 
Ireland never recovered from the great famine.
The attitude of the British government to Ireland and the irish was despicable.....and that attitude prevailed right up to and including the war of independence, the civil war and foundation of the republic. Indeed some would say it prevailed right up to the 1990's.
Ireland was fucked up by the english. It then faced civil war. Independence came but the country was a mess. And was left in a mess. Infant mortality rates right up to the 1960's were higher than the UK. I can remember my dad telling me how he and everyone he knew going to primary school, had no shoes....this is a man who was born in 1940. He used to joke about it saying he painted tar on his feet. Every poor fucker ended up going to religious run schools because they were the only schools there. The british government had denied the irish an education for years so the only group providing education was the orders. I heard my dad say that he was in a class of 80 infants with one nun teaching them. He actually liked her as she was kind to them. She gave them all a bun each at the end of the year.
He talks about the Christian brothers and how one brutal brother used beat the crap out of them. He also used to train a hurling team and in the process he deliberately whacked his hurley off them. My dad couldn't take that abuse and at the age of 12 he beat up the brother and left the school. He went to the local technical college and asked for a place there. Got a place and never told anyone. A month later he came home from school to find the fuckin Christian brothet sitting talking to his mother. Saying they'd a scholarship for my dad if he'd come back to their school. My dad who always seems to know the right thing to do...lol....grabbed him by the collar and threw him out. :D
He never understood why people put up with the abuse doled out. But he used blame it on the fact the irish were completely subservient for so long under british rule that they were no good at standing up for themselves.


"Rotten potatoes and sea-weed, or even grass, properly mixed, afforded a very wholesome and nutritious food. All knew that Irishmen could live upon anything and there was plenty grass in the field though the potato crop should fail. (The Duke Of Cambridge, January 1846)"
 
THE TUAM TANK: ANOTHER MYTH ABOUT EVIL IRELAND
BRENDAN O’NEILL
EDITOR

The obsession with Ireland’s dark past has officially become unhinged.

For proof of the maxim that ‘A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on’, look no further than the Tuam 800 dead babies story. Courtesy of a modern media that seems more interested in titillating readers with gorno than giving us cool facts, and thanks to a Twittermob constantly on the hunt for things it might feel ostentatiously outraged by, the story about babies being dumped in an old, out-of-use septic tank by nuns at a home for ‘fallen women’ in Tuam in Galway made waves in every corner of the globe. Then, a few days later, having finally strapped its boots on, the truth - or at least a more sober analysis of what might have really happened in Tuam - staggered on to the stage. And it was a very different story to the fact-lite, fury-heavy tale that had already gone round the world.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...er-myth-about-evil-ireland/15140#.U5Y5T3JdXYo
I know they weren't all dumped in the septic tank. But it is a fact that nearly 800 children died in unspeakable circumstances and the local community knew and did fuck all.

It's not a 'very different' story at all. Ireland doesn't come out any better. It's still fucking evil to do this to unmarried mothers and their children
 

Amazing stuff:

If you were sexually abused by a Catholic priest nearly 50 years ago, and that priest was now dying or dead, would it not be wise to keep it to yourself?

Look at that choice form of words. Would it not be wise to keep it to yourself - if you know what's good for you, like?

I think I've told the story before of how I got talking to a guy on Stephen's Green years ago who out of the blue started telling me about how he was raped by a priest in his youth. I think he just needed to get it off his chest (and this was years before such stories were allowed into the mass media) and it was easier to tell it to a complete stranger than to someone he knew.
 
I think I've told the story before of how I got talking to a guy on Stephen's Green years ago who out of the blue started telling me about how he was raped by a priest in his youth. I think he just needed to get it off his chest (and this was years before such stories were allowed into the mass media) and it was easier to tell it to a complete stranger than to someone he knew.
There are not enough tears for people like this. :(
 
THE TUAM TANK: ANOTHER MYTH ABOUT EVIL IRELAND
BRENDAN O’NEILL
EDITOR

The obsession with Ireland’s dark past has officially become unhinged.

For proof of the maxim that ‘A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on’, look no further than the Tuam 800 dead babies story. Courtesy of a modern media that seems more interested in titillating readers with gorno than giving us cool facts, and thanks to a Twittermob constantly on the hunt for things it might feel ostentatiously outraged by, the story about babies being dumped in an old, out-of-use septic tank by nuns at a home for ‘fallen women’ in Tuam in Galway made waves in every corner of the globe. Then, a few days later, having finally strapped its boots on, the truth - or at least a more sober analysis of what might have really happened in Tuam - staggered on to the stage. And it was a very different story to the fact-lite, fury-heavy tale that had already gone round the world.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...er-myth-about-evil-ireland/15140#.U5Y5T3JdXYo

Brendan O'Neill, as ever, talking shit, and claiming it's others that are talking shit.
 
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