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Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

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agricola said:
That is certainly how they are advertised, but like the other "ally in a hostile region" over there one does wonder at times what it is that they actually do to earn such a title.
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littlebabyjesus said:
And yet, just two days later, France is attacking IS targets in Raqqa.

I don't see your logic here at all. Assad is fighting, among others, IS.
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I think it is quite difficult to work out who is fighting whom in Syria. IS vs the rest, but Assad fighting IS and the Kurds, ditto Turkey.
 
Artaxerxes said:
Indeed, a comprehensive welfare and equality program will kill ISIS and its ilk better than any thousand bombs. Give people hope and a place in the world and the anger will go, let them know they matter.

Its why I find this sort of thing a bit tasteless

Screen%20Shot%202015-11-14%20at%202.58.36%20PM.png


Last thing Paris needs is people charging in with more guns, they aren't the answer.
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Particularly when we've already seen how it ends

picture-planetoftheapes_hell2.jpg
 
bimble said:
View attachment 79696 View attachment 79695 (pics from link above)


What if ISIS can ( partly) be understood as being basically, a gang, like the hardest most scariest most famous and feared gang on the planet just now, and much easier to join than most, especially if you are all those surprising things that so many of the known individuals turn out to have been (educated, not especially poor etc).

The internet's full of lists for scared parents/ by think tanks trying to explain why kids join gangs. Whilst some do highlight deprivation and peer pressure the main themes seem to be (as per Malik on radicalisation):
  • A sense of belonging, acceptance and loyalty. Gangs may offer a sense of identityto their members and a way to gain attention or status. Kids who do not have strong ties to their families, communities, schools or places of worship may turn to gangs for companionship and as a substitute family.
  • Companionship, training, excitement,and activities. Gang members, recruiters and the media glamorize the gang lifestyle.
  • A sense of self-worth and status. Some are drawn by parties, girls or drugs. Others feel they will receive more respect as a gang member and are seeking power
etc etc.
With IS you get all that plus guns and a uniform and you're not just joining your local boys but a world famous band of brothers, engaged in combat with the most well armed opponent anyone could wish for, on live TV.

(note: i did say partly)
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I agree with what you say, I think you make a very good point. In their heart of hearts what young person doesn't want to feel that they are a person of destiny changing the world in some way. I've heard someone say the money is no longer the route to all evil but nowadays it's attention. And as you say there's a ready made organisation where young idiots can play out sadistic and Rambo fantasies possibly grabbing wealth and property in Syria. Sadly there is also I feel a wider nihilistic mood among all young people with the doom and gloom about global warming and economic uncertainty.
 
I don't really trust syria direct anymore but here's a piece:

‘Raqqa city has become a stage for international revenge’

Sunday's strikes reportedly targeted Islamic State positions on the outskirts of Raqqa city, including two former regime bases and a complex that once housed poultry farms. The aggregate bombings led to the “total cutoff of water and electricity” inside the city, Hamoud al-Musa, a member of Raqqa is Being Slaughtered Silently currently in southern Turkey, told Syria Direct Monday.
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“If a plane explodes above Egypt, Raqqa is bombed,” Musa said. “If a Jordanian plane falls, Raqqa is bombed; after the explosions in Paris, Raqqa is bombed.”

The intensity of France's estimated 30 strikes on Sunday initially sowed panic among Raqqa residents, said Abu Muadh.

“After it was confirmed that civilians weren't injured in the strikes, people calmed down a bit.”

Hamoud al-Musa of RBSS confirmed that no civilians had been hit in the airstrikes. “I think that's the first time that's happened in Raqqa city,” he said.
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bimble said:
View attachment 79696 View attachment 79695 (pics from link above)


What if ISIS can ( partly) be understood as being basically, a gang, like the hardest most scariest most famous and feared gang on the planet just now, and much easier to join than most, especially if you are all those surprising things that so many of the known individuals turn out to have been (educated, not especially poor etc).

The internet's full of lists for scared parents/ by think tanks trying to explain why kids join gangs. Whilst some do highlight deprivation and peer pressure the main themes seem to be (as per Malik on radicalisation):
  • A sense of belonging, acceptance and loyalty. Gangs may offer a sense of identityto their members and a way to gain attention or status. Kids who do not have strong ties to their families, communities, schools or places of worship may turn to gangs for companionship and as a substitute family.
  • Companionship, training, excitement,and activities. Gang members, recruiters and the media glamorize the gang lifestyle.
  • A sense of self-worth and status. Some are drawn by parties, girls or drugs. Others feel they will receive more respect as a gang member and are seeking power
etc etc.
With IS you get all that plus guns and a uniform and you're not just joining your local boys but a world famous band of brothers, engaged in combat with the most well armed opponent anyone could wish for, on live TV.

(note: i did say partly)
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Could say the same for the Foreign Legion
 
Greebozz said:
I agree with what you say, I think you make a very good point. In their heart of hearts what young person doesn't want to feel that they are a person of destiny changing the world in some way. I've heard someone say the money is no longer the route to all evil but nowadays it's attention. And as you say there's a ready made organisation where young idiots can play out sadistic and Rambo fantasies possibly grabbing wealth and property in Syria. Sadly there is also I feel a wider nihilistic mood among all young people with the doom and gloom about global warming and economic uncertainty.
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I thought your ban for racism directed at syrian refugees was permanent?
 
Greebozz said:
I agree with what you say, I think you make a very good point. In their heart of hearts what young person doesn't want to feel that they are a person of destiny changing the world in some way. I've heard someone say the money is no longer the route to all evil but nowadays it's attention. And as you say there's a ready made organisation where young idiots can play out sadistic and Rambo fantasies possibly grabbing wealth and property in Syria. Sadly there is also I feel a wider nihilistic mood among all young people with the doom and gloom about global warming and economic uncertainty.
Click to expand...
As I've noted in other threads, narcissism is rife in society nowadays, fueled in particular by social media, but also our 'shopping and fucking' culture.

Islam, too, is tailor made for the narcissistic attention-seeker, particularly the convert. I know a couple of converts, one of whom genuinely surprised me with her changed attitude towards more or less everything. It took her previous 'look at me' tendencies to a whole new level. 'Born' Muslims seem to look upon her with a certain amount of perturbation.
 
I blame Iain Duncan smith and the work fare programme


these feckless kids could be at home smoking weed, playing xbox one and watching Jeremy kyle on 60 inch plasma screen TV's

but alas no








*gets coat*
 
And FWIW, Stiff Little Fingers have issued this statement:

Our sincere condolences go out to everyone affected by the Parisian tragedies. The music business is often sheltered from the harsh realities of life and this weekend they have come home with a dreadful finality.

As you may know, Stiff Little Fingers are scheduled to play in Paris tomorrow evening and there is a lot of confusion around this date as shows are being cancelled or re-scheduled and so on.

When we were growing up in Belfast, I was always saddened by the fact that groups would never come and play there because of the political situation. I was deprived of another "normal" part of life.

With this in mind, and with the wonderful co-operation of our Parisian promoter, the S.L.F. show at Backstage at the Mill, WILL GO AHEAD AS ADVERTISED tomorrow night.

I hope to see as many of you there as possible.

Hanx!
 
teqniq said:
FFS :mad:

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un be fucking lievable.

“Sir, they were not from our ranks!” Louati exclaimed. “We cannot accept the idea that these people are from us, they are not. They are just byproducts of our societies exporting their wars abroad and expecting no repercussions back home.”
Co-host Isha Sesay insisted that Louati had to “accept that responsibility to prevent the bigger backlash” because the “finger of blame is pointing at the Muslim community.”
 
bimble said:
un be fucking lievable.

“Sir, they were not from our ranks!” Louati exclaimed. “We cannot accept the idea that these people are from us, they are not. They are just byproducts of our societies exporting their wars abroad and expecting no repercussions back home.”
Co-host Isha Sesay insisted that Louati had to “accept that responsibility to prevent the bigger backlash” because the “finger of blame is pointing at the Muslim community.”
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Perhaps he should have invited the anchor to take personal responsibility for, oh, I dunno, the abuses at Abu Ghraib, or the slaughter in Fallujah?
 
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