Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 vanishes without trace
- Thread starter treefrog
- Start date
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
I thought those images were from France? Or did Malaysians analyse them and therefore lay claim to them?
2hats
Dust.
The imagery was acquired by Airbus Defence and Space (was Astrium) and distributed by them to the Malaysian Remote Sensing Agency (MRSA) who have subsequently published them. As the Malaysian authorities are legally the lead for this search and recovery data providers would normally send them what they have and then it is for the Malaysians to publish it. AIUI the MRSA subsequently analysed the images themselves. As you can see from the cloud cover, it's not surprising that this takes some time.
Just to add - apparently an Australian spotter plane has reported observing some of the suspect debris (BBC).
e2a: am intrigued as to whether the insets are true to the locations indicated (they may of course be processed and/or other spectral channels at the same geographical location) or whether the back image is simply 'wallpaper'.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
No idea I'm afraid
ffsear
Well-Known Member
some info on the actual plane. Only 11 years old
http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28420,9M-MRO-Malaysia-Airlines.php
http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28420,9M-MRO-Malaysia-Airlines.php
smmudge
i know the smudge is true
Dunno if I see the comparison tbh. I can understand if someone thinks that traumatising other people (the train driver and anyone else who may see) is a price worth paying for ending your own life. But knowingly taking out hundreds of other people too? That's not just suicide, that's murder.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
The point is that someone in a suicidal state of mind is likely to lack the perspective to enable them to evaluate the effects of their actions. The difference between the train jumper and someone who crashes an airliner is is merely one of context and scale - the mindset will be broadly similar.
Furthermore, some suicides incorporate an aspect of attack ("you'll be sorry when I'm gone"): at the milder end, this might simply be an attack on those near to the suicidal individual by inflicting such a loss on them; at the extreme end, that motivation to attack could include taking many others to their deaths.
The foregoing doesn't really apply to the kind of ideologically motivated suicide such as suicide bombings - I don't know much about the mindset that operates there.
smmudge
i know the smudge is true
I don't entirely agree. Some perspectives may be distorted, for sure - for instance, the impact the death will have on your loved ones will probably be more in reality than you think - but people generally plan their suicide and part of judging your options is considering what impact it will have on others and especially strangers. So it is possible to be fairly rational in that respect, and if you think ending your life is worth 200 others, there is more than just suicidal thought at play. Yes suicides may incorporate an aspect of attack but it certainly isn't necessary (some also incorporate an aspect of altruism - 'everyone else will be better off if I'm dead'), and it certainly doesn't excuse killing others.
Of course I could feel empathy IF it was suicide that the pilot felt he needed to end his life, but absolutely not for taking other people with him, that's still unjustifiable imo.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Some good ones here, including one at Langkawi. I've got a couple of pictures of planes I've got off at Langkawi, but not 777s
http://www.airliners.net/search/pho...A9VzyXxmHWzL4osimBM1S81hg&s=1&ss=431j185761j2
2hats
Dust.
One successful wide body jet ditching 'at sea': Nimrod XW666 after an in flight fire. However military trained crew, radioed a mayday, ditched on almost perfectly flat inshore waters just a few miles off the coast witnessed by SAR helicopters. Aircraft was deemed to be only capable of flight for perhaps a few more minutes (on going structural failure due to fire), broke in at least two on impact and sank within a few minutes. All 7 on board rescued with minor injuries. Bent cockpit:
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
added to which of course is the significant factor that everyone on board will have done the 'dunking' course, and will have an ingrained aviation culture of knowing what they will have to do, and of doing it exactly when they are told to do it. getting 200+ untrained, inexperienced people off an aircraft that has succesfully ditched is going to be like herding cats.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Herding 200+ panicking cats doing irrational things like trying to get their luggage off the plane.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Planning (a lot of suicides are well-planned) does not necessarily imply breadth of perspective, or any empathy for others. That "if you think ending your life is worth 200 others" kind of evaluation is not likely to be the kind of thinking a suicidal individual would be doing at that point, even if they were able to plan quite a sophisticated suicide attempt.
I have to say that your use of words like "excuse" and "unjustifiable" betrays exactly the kind of expectation of moral judgement that we would not expect a person in a suicidal state to be capable of making: there was a plane in Japan that crashed as a result of the pilot engaging the thrust reversers in flight, killing 7 or 8 people, and in that case even the authorities, while holding him entirely to blame for the accident, recognised his act as a feature of his mental state and didn't prosecute.
People who have the privilege of being able to look at these situations from the outside and make post-facto moral judgements about whether a suicidal person's acts are right or wrong are fortunate to have the luxury of distance. Any of us whose work involves being alongside someone in that kind of state (hopefully not in the cockpit of a jetliner, though!) will know that we don't have the option of sitting in judgement, nor would it do any good to do so: someone who is suicidal is not likely to respond to those types of argument very well.
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Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Imagine what state of speculation we'd be in if they didn't have the Inmarsat data. The current believed fate and wreck site of the plane is one of the more unlikely scenarios considered when looking at the facts available before the satellite data came out. Without that it probably would never have been found, conspiraloons would have gone into overdrive, relatives in eternal limbo. It's the only thing that's put it here, constrained the search to an arc and given an indication of flight time.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
If it was a pilot suicide would it not have more in common with the mass shootings, such as the ones we tend to see in America, than a more 'normal ' suicide?
2hats
Dust.
2hats
Dust.
Panicking, severely injured, frightened cats.
There have been ditchings (PanAm 526A, prop, controlled, a few miles off the coast, mayday called, SAR active) where many people simply refused to evacuate (frightened to go out/on the water/fear of sharks, apparently) and then drowned when the remains of the aircraft sank.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Yes, I think you're right.
smmudge
i know the smudge is true
In my experience the fact alone that one is suicidal usually has little impact on their ability to make moral judgements; rather, suicidal people are more willing to do the wrong thing if they think it's 'worth' it. I'm not saying it's black and white and I can't give you a neat, clear-cut theory on what I think is ok and what isn't. But generally I wouldn't condemn someone who stepped out in front of a train but I would condemn someone who deliberately crashed a plane that was also carrying passengers and crew.
I've been there, a lot of people have. I'm sure that most would agree with me when I say it's quite possible to plan to end your life but still think that taking another's is abhorrent.
Supine
Newt Member
Although there is still no hard evidence to say the plane has been found
I was thinking this today, if you scanned any sea in the world you'd probably find loads of garbage floating around. They need to recover some to get a positive id.
2hats
Dust.
Most oceanic garbage consists of small items (actually, technically, most of it is microscopic plastic), fairly dispersed. The French satellite imagery indicating close groupings of >100 objects of order 1m or greater is a strong lead. Obviously they are keen to get hands on the items to confirm and proceed, but I'd be surprised if someone wasn't already modelling the evolution of those items on the strength of that image alone (it's a far better steer than any of the previous satellite images) in order to begin to identify a possible starting point for the survey vessels and towed array that are en route.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you're forgetting flying it most of the way to the south pole.So is the current theory that he flew the plane to 43000 ft, killing everyone on board and then crashed it into the sea?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
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