Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

[bimble]

I'd forgotten about the 20mph thing. Did that come into force yesterday?
I don't think it applies to CHL though does it?

Don't know. The website says this:
'As part of the aim to have the safest and greenest streets in the capital, all Lambeth’s roads are to be given a 20mph speed limit. The new speed limits will be marked with signs and road markings, rather than physical speed humps and cushions. Lambeth council are in charge of the majority of roads in the borough, apart from the major routes into and around London, which are controlled by Transport for London.'

I haven't noticed a whole load of new signs saying 20mph (which there's a £700,000 budget for remember) so don't think it's really happened yet.
Lambeth Goes 20mph - guide | Lambeth Council

 

[prunus]

Yes they are real and were all taken at the times I said, this evening. They came straight off my cameraphone, then resized in photoshop to make them smaller (hence the "s" suffix I added to the filenames) so that they were within the upload limit for here.

I'd say a bit of mild sarcasm is small fry compared to being accused of fabricating evidence.

It is - critical1 is way off base here - but even so.

Today's morning update from chl: clear and free-flowing.

 

[teuchter]

Don't know. The website says this:
'As part of the aim to have the safest and greenest streets in the capital, all Lambeth’s roads are to be given a 20mph speed limit. The new speed limits will be marked with signs and road markings, rather than physical speed humps and cushions. Lambeth council are in charge of the majority of roads in the borough, apart from the major routes into and around London, which are controlled by Transport for London.'

I haven't noticed a whole load of new signs saying 20mph (which there's a £700,000 budget for remember) so don't think it's really happened yet.
Lambeth Goes 20mph - guide | Lambeth Council

They say

From November 2015, work will commence to introduce a new 20mph speed limit borough wide.

So looks like it'll be a gradual process rather than all coming into force now.

 

[critical1]

It is - critical1 is way off base here - but even so.

Today's morning update from chl: clear and free-flowing.

Off Base??? how? I plainly said it was busier on a Sunday, is that not true? I never claimed fabrication did I?

 

[prunus]

Off Base??? how? I plainly said it was busier on a Sunday, is that not true? I never claimed fabrication did I?

Ok, if you weren't implying teuchter was lying, apologies. It did look a bit like it though, to be fair... but I'm glad not.

The whole traffic-reducing scheme is starting to look really quite successful now though, don't you think? I know you've been opposed to it so far but don't you think it's actually working rather well?

 

[CH1]

Don't know. The website says this:
'As part of the aim to have the safest and greenest streets in the capital, all Lambeth’s roads are to be given a 20mph speed limit. The new speed limits will be marked with signs and road markings, rather than physical speed humps and cushions. Lambeth council are in charge of the majority of roads in the borough, apart from the major routes into and around London, which are controlled by Transport for London.'

I haven't noticed a whole load of new signs saying 20mph (which there's a £700,000 budget for remember) so don't think it's really happened yet.
Lambeth Goes 20mph - guide | Lambeth Council

I think Lambeth are currently in Descartes mode: "I think therefore I am" [Cogito ergo sum for teuchter]

 

[CH1]

Off Base??? how? I plainly said it was busier on a Sunday, is that not true? I never claimed fabrication did I?

Might have been busier on Sunday because the contractors were mucking about with their lights to get overtime.

 

[CH1]

The whole traffic-reducing scheme is starting to look really quite successful now though, don't you think? I know you've been opposed to it so far but don't you think it's actually working rather well?

Actually looks to me like currently the problems have moved to junction of Barrington Road, Moorland Road, Coldharbour Lane and Gresham Road which is hardly surprising since it is already a difficult junction with safety issues.

There was a car crash there on Saturday night which was reported in another thread with pictures.

Elsewhere on Urban75 you have this from 2007

It would be crass for me to blame Saturday night's accident on the new traffic scheme, but it must make such an accident more likely.
As can be seen by the bus crash safety is a critical issue here.

 

[teuchter]

It would be crass for me to blame Saturday night's accident on the new traffic scheme, but it must make such an accident more likely.

Why is it you think it makes accidents at this junction more likely?

 

[critical1]

Ok, if you weren't implying teuchter was lying, apologies. It did look a bit like it though, to be fair... but I'm glad not.

The whole traffic-reducing scheme is starting to look really quite successful now though, don't you think? I know you've been opposed to it so far but don't you think it's actually working rather well?

I do not know what teuchter is capable of! I clearly stated that it was indeed busier on Sunday than a Monday! Apology accepted.

Yes it is working I feel KETTLED IN still, so yes it is working in achieving the kettled experience.

 

[CH1]

Why is it you think it makes accidents at this junction more likely?

Increasing traffic volume by diverting traffic from Loughborough Road to St James's Crescent and possibly (illegally) via Barrington Road also & vv.

 

[bimble]

Maybe someone who drives can explain: Are there are good obvious alternatives to use if you're travelling say between Camberwell and Brixton, so that changing your habits to avoid CHL is a fairly simple thing to do?

 

[bimble]

[Cogito ergo sum for teuchter]

He's not latin he's just scottish.

 

[CH1]

Yes it is working I feel KETTLED IN still, so yes it is working in achieving the kettled experience.

I still see this as a project to manage global traffic flow by "sanctioning" local people.
In this sense you are right to complain in my view.

I do agree with teuchter's apparent view that cars are totally unnecessary for most people in this part of London.

To me this is a different issue from that of stopping up local roads to prevent car commuting etc.

The current LJ option punishes everybody equally. Like being kept in at school because someone stole teachers pencil. Or bar staff being equally penalised because someone made a mistake at the till (Which happened to me once. I felt strongly enough to resign on the spot).

 

[CH1]

He's not latin he's just scottish.

Aren't Scots notorious for demanding precision? Engineering, banking ....oooops!

 

[CH1]

Maybe someone who drives can explain: Are there are good obvious alternatives to use if you're travelling say between Camberwell and Brixton, so that changing your habits to avoid CHL is a fairly simple thing to do?

I don't think there are any good alternatives. That is what CHL is for. Connecting Brixton and Camberwell. If they hadn't built a low railway bridge by the Dogstar it would no doubt be a RED ROUTE by now - as someone seemed to be nudging towards. Crispy was it?

 

[irf520]

I don't think there are any good alternatives. That is what CHL is for. Connecting Brixton and Camberwell. If they hadn't built a low railway bridge by the Dogstar it would no doubt be a RED ROUTE by now - as someone seemed to be nudging towards. Crispy was it?

I don't think low bridges disqualify a road from being a red route. Thurlow Park Road anyone? That bridge gets bashed regularly.

 

[irf520]

Maybe someone who drives can explain: Are there are good obvious alternatives to use if you're travelling say between Camberwell and Brixton, so that changing your habits to avoid CHL is a fairly simple thing to do?

There isn't anything I'd describe as a good alternative. You either go to the north of CHL and end up meeting Brixton Road to the north of Brixton centre, upon which you sit in a long jam on approach to the centre, or you go south as far as Herne Hill then across, which is considerably further. However with the state of CHL over the last few weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if people avoided it like the plague.

 

[teuchter]

Yes it is working I feel KETTLED IN still, so yes it is working in achieving the kettled experience.

I take it you are one of the minority of locals who make most of their journeys by car, then, as access for pedestrians and public transport users is exactly as it was previously.

 

[bimble]

I still see this as a project to manage global traffic flow by "sanctioning" local people..

I'm still trying (& failing) to see it as it has been presented by the people who introduced it; As a way of making a meaningful town centre for Lj.

 

[irf520]

I still see this as a project to manage global traffic flow by "sanctioning" local people.
In this sense you are right to complain in my view.

I do agree with teuchter's apparent view that cars are totally unnecessary for most people in this part of London.

To me this is a different issue from that of stopping up local roads to prevent car commuting etc.

The current LJ option punishes everybody equally. Like being kept in at school because someone stole teachers pencil. Or bar staff being equally penalised because someone made a mistake at the till (Which happened to me once. I felt strongly enough to resign on the spot).

I use a car to get to work. But then I work 60+ miles away and public transport would be a nightmare and take a lot longer.

 

[teuchter]

Increasing traffic volume by diverting traffic from Loughborough Road to St James's Crescent and possibly (illegally) via Barrington Road also & vv.

My observations during yesterday's rush hour suggested that there simply is not a huge volume of traffic using these routes. It's been my observation every other time I've walked down St James Crescent since the closures that it really is not full of traffic.

 

[irf520]

Why is it you think it makes accidents at this junction more likely?

More right turns. To get around the LR closure you can either use Gresham Rd or Barrington Rd/St James's Cres, both of which involve a right turn at that junction.

 

[CH1]

My observations during yesterday's rush hour suggested that there simply is not a huge volume of traffic using these routes. It's been my observation every other time I've walked down St James Crescent since the closures that it really is not full of traffic.

To be quite honest I am beginning to think we do need a bit more bedding in time before voting/evaluating.

The introduction of the scheme to coincide with major works at the junction of Herne Hill Road was a disaster. Just goes to show how well coordinated our overlords are. TFL, Lambeth, UK Power Networks et al working independently.

What chance have we got?

 

[teuchter]

To be quite honest I am beginning to think we do need a bit more bedding in time before voting/evaluating.

Hooray!

 

[teuchter]

I use a car to get to work. But then I work 60+ miles away and public transport would be a nightmare and take a lot longer.

I think you'd have to accept you're a bit of a special case then.

It wouldn't really be practical to design inner London's transport network around the needs of people who commute to work miles outside of the city.

I am interested in why you say it would be a "nightmare" to use public transport. For some other reason than it taking longer?

 

[critical1]

I take it you are one of the minority of locals who make most of their journeys by car, then, as access for pedestrians and public transport users is exactly as it was previously.

Hahaha you can assume what you like it will be totaly wrong and out of context....
I am not a minority but part of a MAJORITY all 3,500 of us.

 

[concerned1]

Given the time and resources 3500 is a small number of those who are genuinely and seriously against this scheme. But much thanks to all those 3500 plus another 167 on the original petition who have signed it after the closures began and also the 1250+ who have signed a paper petition and all the countless numbers who have sent their complaints to the Officers, Cllrs and MP's.
There are so many lives being badly effected by it.

This scheme has been set up via so many lies and continues on, based on them, has that workman's nose grown any longer?

 

[irf520]

I think you'd have to accept you're a bit of a special case then.

It wouldn't really be practical to design inner London's transport network around the needs of people who commute to work miles outside of the city.

I am interested in why you say it would be a "nightmare" to use public transport. For some other reason than it taking longer?

Yes, I understand that. I usually leave early (6am) and get back late (8pm or later) to avoid the worst of the traffic. I work at home 2 days a week. Its only if I need to get home early for some reason I end up taking the full brunt of rush hour traffic.
Generally I avoid driving at busy times if possible. I don't want to spend time sitting in traffic jams if I can avoid it. But the changes to the roads are making things hell even at times which didn't used to be busy. It's really starting to get on my nerves.
As for public transport, it already takes me 1.5 hours or more each way. On public transport you can add an hour to that. I think 2.5 hours to get to work is a bit much.

 

[teuchter]

Hahaha you can assume what you like it will be totaly wrong and out of context....
I am not a minority but part of a MAJORITY all 3,500 of us.

I'm just trying to figure out how your claim that you are "kettled" could make any sense.

FYI the population of Vassall and Herne Hill Wards is around 30,000. And I wonder how many of the petition signatories even live in those areas. Very definitely not all of them, looking at the comments.