Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

[teuchter]

Taken at 4.45 this evening



So still being widely ignored then.

 

[bimble]

But .. is that a picture of "a structural element of the road network"?

before I reply can you define what you mean by "structural element of the road network" and how you distinguish them from non-structural elements, please.

 

[LadyV]

Taken at 4.45 this evening

View attachment 78070

So still being widely ignored then.

Blimey that's nearly a grand right there, maybe with all their fines Lambeth can do everything again but properly, so a proper consultation with more than 299 people within the consultation area responding and then if people still want the road closed, a proper bus gate.

I see at least 10-15 cars every morning and every evening on my way to and from work, so that's about £2000 in about 5 minutes, if they all pay £130 each.

If we take Teucher's picture with 7 cars in one snapshot and maybe have an low estimate of 5 cars per minute, that's still a potential of 7,200 cars a day still going through. If we have the CCTV car there for say 9am to 5pm, so 8 hours a day, that's a possible 2,400 fines being issued, which is £312,000, £156,000 if they all pay within 14 days. £156,000 a day, a working week of the CCTV car being there could generate £780,000. Obviously once the fines start landing on door mats the traffic would reduce so you wouldn't get as much as time goes on but still that is a heck of lot of money. Where do we think that money is going? Because I can't imagine that it's going back to help regenerate Loughborough Junction!!

Even if we reduce that estimate to 2 cars a minute which is way too low on current anecdata, that's still 2,880 cars a day. Again with our model of CCTV car there for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, a week could generate £624,000 at full price fine or £312,000 at the 50% reduction.

And this is just at the Loughborough Road junction, I've also seen cameras at Barrington Road and one of the other blocked roads, can't remember it's name. The potential for making money is massive!

A conspiracy theorist might speculate that Lambeth have done a really shit job of implementing the plan to raise some much needed cash. Maybe our councillors should be asking the traffic team where the money will go, maybe I'll enquire.

 

[Beasley]

A conspiracy theorist might speculate that Lambeth have done a really shit job of implementing the plan to raise some much needed cash.

If Lambeth kept the Rosendale Road scheme they could get some drivers twice or even four times in one day -- £520 -- easy money!

 

[bimble]

Here are some numbers from something called Clean Air In London, a website called howpollutedismyroad.org.uk.
You can compare last year's pollution & vehicle numbers for Loughborough Road and Coldharbour Lane.
Coldharbour Lane much worse on all counts, before this experiment, as you'd expect.
How many of the 10,000 vehicles from Loughborough Road have been added to CHL's existing 13,000 we can't know, with proper statistics, unless the closures stay and this becomes the new normal.

Whoever it was that came up with this idea of adding all Loughborough Road's stink onto our main shopping, bus and pedestrian street deserves some sort of special recognition, like a plaque or something.

 

[bimble]

Even if we reduce that estimate to 2 cars a minute which is way too low on current anecdata, that's still 2,880 cars a day. Again with our model of CCTV car there for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, a week could generate £624,000 at full price fine or £312,000 at the 50% reduction.

That is some serious money right there. Maybe this is good news, maybe the takings will be reinvested right here in a proper attempt to improve the public realm in Loughborough Junction. That would be nice.

 

[LadyV]

That is some serious money right there. Maybe this is good news, maybe the takings will be reinvested right here in a proper attempt to improve the public realm in Loughborough Junction. That would be nice.

Have asked Rachel Heywood if she knows

 

[LadyV]

Whoever it was that came up with this idea of adding all Loughborough Road's stink onto our main shopping, bus and pedestrian street deserves some sort of special recognition, like a plaque or something.

A plaque or a plague?

 

[cuppa tee]

Here is an intriguing snippet, a cycling lawyer trying to whip up support for the closures made a blog post which has been removed since i stumbled on it last week........ luckily the cached version still exists..................

Lambeth Council to decide on closure of Loughborough Road « Personal Injury Blog

..............it appears she thinks the closure zone has " good space for cycling "

 

[bimble]

I wonder why she removed it, maybe she's observed that cycling around the junction and down coldharbour lane has become extremely unpleasant and things were better before.

Whenever people say that thing about "an pedestrianized zone apart from buses and cycles' it confuses me. Had this idea about pedestrian zones that they were just for people moving around in a quite relaxed manner on feet. I don't really see the point otherwise.

 

[leanderman]

Have asked Rachel Heywood if she knows

Will the fines stick though?

I could see them being overturned on appeal on grounds of inadequate signage etc

 

[bimble]

Will the fines stick though?

I could see them being overturned on appeal on grounds of inadequate signage etc

I think that side of things has been taken quite seriously.
Believe it was the day after someone spray painted over the £130 fine signs that those two brand new giant portable digital ones appeared at the junction, saying the same thing.

 

[Gramsci]

Well the evidence at hand shows that these things are currently happening and are detrimental, they are not a list of "possible" so why wait for 6 months.. When we have to deal with corpses of this experiment.
Reverse the closures NOW.

I was cycling down Loughborough road this morning at about 9.30 to get to Brixton Road. With the road closure further up its now clear from Fiveways to Brixton Road.

Normally its rammed with traffic trying to get both ways.

I saw for the first time an ambulance go straight up that bit of road towards Fiveways.

Normally this would be impossible at this time of day.

So on that bit of residential street ( lot of it Council) its a lot more pleasant environment for those that live there.

Its also means that emergency vehicles can now use that stretch of road.

So reversing the road closures will stop that. You ok with that?

 

[bimble]

So reversing the road closures will stop that. You ok with that?

I think it's clear that there are 'winner's and 'losers' in this experiment, George Wright used those words himself I remember, when talking about some residential roads which will inevitably get more polluted etc.
To me the question is how many people are better off with and how many worse.
The ambulance worker who spoke at the meeting against the closures did have a many paged document he waved around whilst he was speaking about increased response times, but I'm sure as you say there are some places the ambulance can reach quicker than before, I just don't think it's the majority of places. There was one (ambulance ) paused for a while outside my window this morning, doing that confused thing all drivers do, confronted with 3 NO Entry signs.

 

[Gramsci]

"Narrow Loughborough Road and Hinton Road making Coldharbour Lane the main route through LJ"?
An excellent idea!
Shove all the traffic out of the only modern wide road onto the main shopping and pedestrian street, and the one used by most of the buses.
Much appreciated by pedestrians, shoppers, people who use buses.

This is not blocking off Loughborough road but narrowing it instead?

Sorry I thought earlier in this thread alternatives to the complete closure of a section of Loughborough Road were considered ok.

That "we" all wanted to reduce through traffic at LJ. So an alternative model is considered ok.

Are u now saying that any alternative is no out of order?

Closing a section of Hinton road instead was voiced at the last LJ Neighbourhood planning meeting. No one objected to it. It seemed to me something to follow up.

 

[critical1]

ok fair enough. I would still like to know, as someone who wants to see 'the results' of the experiment before deciding either way, which results you are looking forward to seeing. Are you aware of anything Lambeth is planning to include in its quantitative evaluation apart from the reduced pollution on the closed street and the counting of cars?

The problem with teuchter is that definitive answers are not possible and if they were the community would be dead a bit like schrödinger's cat. If its broken how will you fix it? Will you give compensation to businesses etc? Thought so...

Which view do you think teuchter would take!

 

[bimble]

This is not blocking off Loughborough road but narrowing it instead?

Sorry I thought earlier in this thread alternatives to the complete closure of a section of Loughborough Road were considered ok.

That "we" all wanted to reduce through traffic at LJ. So an alternative model is considered ok.

Are u now saying that any alternative is no out of order?

Closing a section of Hinton road instead was voiced at the last LJ Neighbourhood planning meeting. No one objected to it. It seemed to me something to follow up.

No I'm VERY keen on any plan for reducing the amount of fumes I have to breathe every day.
Its just I'd particularly like one that involved reducing the traffic on coldharbour lane, the main pedestrian and shopping and bus stop street please. Instead of increasing it a lot.

 

[Gramsci]

I think it's clear that there are 'winner's and 'losers' in this experiment, George Wright used those words himself I remember, when talking about some residential roads which will inevitably get more polluted etc.
To me the question is how many people are better off with and how many worse.
The ambulance worker who spoke at the meeting against the closures did have a many paged document he waved around whilst he was speaking about increased response times, but I'm sure as you say there are some places the ambulance can reach quicker than before, I just don't think it's the majority of places. There was one (ambulance ) paused for a while outside my window this morning, doing that confused thing all drivers do, confronted with 3 NO Entry signs.

The ambulance I saw going fast with its lights and horn on. This route would take it direct to the hospital from that direction. Emergency vehicles can ignore the road closure. If they dont know this then its lack of informing drivers not the schemes fault.

I would like some more evidence of how its actually affecting emergency vehicles.

As for increased pollution I live directly on CHL. So any increase in traffic will affect me.

Just saying before anyone accuses me of just being selfish cyclist.

 

[bimble]

Me too, I want those informations too. They are not part of the plan though, the evaluation plan.

 

[Gramsci]

BTW whose going to the LJ Neighbourhood planning meeting meeting on Thursday? Just be good to say hello to fellow urbanites

BTW Its not that secret who I am on Urban. LJAG know I post here. So u can just ask me.

Got email saying where its at:

For as I know its open meeting. Anyone can attend.

LJ Neighbourhood Planning Forum meeting on Thursday 15 October at 6.30pm
You are invited to the next meeting of the LJ Neighbourhood Planning Forum at 6.30pm in the hall at the Loughborough Centre, Angell Road (on the corner with Barrington Road).

Please click below for the following documents:

1. Agenda in docx and pdf formats
2. Minutes of the meeting on Wednesday 16 September in docx and pdf formats
3. Bid to GLA regeneration fund.

Best wishes
Anthea Masey
Forum co-ordinator


https://gallery.mailchimp.com/c678366a8fc275dc2daf27f88/files/LJAGLJNeighbourhoodPlanningForum16_09_2015.docx

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/c6783...JAGLJNeighbourhoodPlanningForum16_09_2015.pdf

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/c6783...es/LJAGLJNeighbourhoodPF15_10_2015agenda.docx

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/c678366a8fc275dc2daf27f88/files/LJAGLJNeighbourhoodPF15_10_2015agenda.pdf

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/c678366a8fc275dc2daf27f88/files/LJAGGLARegenbid1.pdf

 

[leanderman]

No I'm VERY keen on any plan for reducing the amount of fumes I have to breathe every day.
Its just I'd particularly like one that involved reducing the traffic on coldharbour lane, the main pedestrian and shopping and bus stop street please. Instead of increasing it a lot.

It's not impossible that net traffic, and therefore pollution and emissions, in the area is down.

Might some drivers not now have concluded that their commute, or school drop-off, needs to be rethought?

Oyster card data reveals that - forced to rethink their routes because of Tube strikes - commuters stumble on small but significant journey-time savings.

 

[critical1]

It looks like George Wright, architect of the scheme, is taking a break. Presumably won't be able to make it to the meeting about the closures tomorrow.

View attachment 78063

 

[Gramsci]

Me too, I want those informations too. They are not part of the plan though, the evaluation plan.

They should be. Something to bring up tomorrow.

 

[bimble]

They should be. Something to bring up tomorrow.

Please do. I don't think I can make it but I would be asking about how this whole thing is being evaluated, how its success or failure will be judged.
Particularly in reference to the joke of their air quality measuring plan, which consists only of 2 hours measuring the pollution on the closed road, with CHL as the control (!) so any changes there deemed unconnected.

 

[Gramsci]

It's not impossible that net traffic, and therefore pollution and emissions, in the area is down.

Might some drivers not now have concluded that their commute, or school drop-off, needs to be rethought?

Oyster card data reveals that - forced to rethink their routes because of Tube strikes - commuters stumble on small but significant journey-time savings.

There was massive increase of use of Boris Bikes. Instead of getting Tube to Railway station people cycled. They had to get about 200 extra Boris Bikes to Soho Sq in morning. I know I was hanging out in Soho Sq when they brought them in.

 

[bimble]

It's not impossible that net traffic, and therefore pollution and emissions, in the area is down.

I walk down coldharbour lane every day. It does not seem down to me. It seems up a lot. But I just live here, it''s just anecdata.

 

[prunus]

Closing a section of Hinton road instead was voiced at the last LJ Neighbourhood planning meeting. No one objected to it. It seemed to me something to follow up.

Assuming the suggestion is for a closure of a section under the bridges (closing the bit south of the roundabout wouldn't achieve much) then surely you'd have to close Wanless and probably Wingmore, and likely Alderton and indeed the rest of Hinton too, otherwise the north <-> south route (Milkwood <-> Loughborough Road) would just dogleg through those streets and via Herne hill road.

Personally I'd love all that to happen (disclosure those are the roads I live in, and yes I have a car), but the point is that one can't just close one road in a network - it needs to be co-ordinated with likely alternative routes.

 

[Gramsci]

No I'm VERY keen on any plan for reducing the amount of fumes I have to breathe every day.
Its just I'd particularly like one that involved reducing the traffic on coldharbour lane, the main pedestrian and shopping and bus stop street please. Instead of increasing it a lot.

Im not sure what to about that.

In central London as measures to reduce traffic and make central London more pedestrian friendly (wider pavements in Oxford street for example) have come in it means traffic moves more slowly in many parts. .

Oxford street is getting to be a bus car park now.

Bloomsbury Way and Shaftesbury Avenue have been narrowed down so much that car traffic moves really slowly.

The basic problem in London is to much traffic. London had declining population in 80s now its increasing a lot. So more traffic.

 

[bimble]

At least the question is being passed around Lambeth council relevant people today, the one about air quality, is the air better or worse for residents with or without closures. . It seems it hadn't been raised at all as a concern yet.

 

[LadyV]

Will the fines stick though?

I could see them being overturned on appeal on grounds of inadequate signage etc

Some will definitely be appealed, especially if they were clever enough to take photos of the vandalised signs but there have been a good few days of proper signage and cameras, yet people are still going through, those people will have difficulty appealing