Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

[Beasley]

Closing a section of Hinton road instead was voiced at the last LJ Neighbourhood planning meeting.

I never quite got that idea when posted by CH1, way back in 4 Nov 2014, on page 4 of this thread (#94) when it was a more sedate discussion:

I think the obvious solution to all this is simply to close off Hinton Road. That area is where the traffic is coming from - and apparently the complaints.
Then the Loughborough Estate area can be left in peace - in both senses.

But… Milkwood and Hinton Roads are classified as B222 so surely TfL would forbid their being closed? Loughborough Road is obviously part of the same route but, by some accident of history, not classified and therefore not subject to the same conditions.

 

[concerned1]

Interesting comment on the other Change.org petition Lambeth council: Community support for Loughborough Junction Plan

From Anthea Masey of LJAG:
“In all the fuss about the road closures the vision for a better Loughborough Junction is getting lost.”

Actually she does not say that she says and I quote;
"In all the fuss but the road closures the vision for a better Loughborough Junction is getting lost."
She cannot even write one sentence and get it right!!!

 

[concerned1]

I was cycling down Loughborough road this morning at about 9.30 to get to Brixton Road. With the road closure further up its now clear from Fiveways to Brixton Road.

Normally its rammed with traffic trying to get both ways.

I saw for the first time an ambulance go straight up that bit of road towards Fiveways.

Normally this would be impossible at this time of day.

So on that bit of residential street ( lot of it Council) its a lot more pleasant environment for those that live there.

Its also means that emergency vehicles can now use that stretch of road.

So reversing the road closures will stop that. You ok with that?

I live near Loughborough Road and can see the traffic and ambulances have never had any problems driving up it at any time of day before the closures.

 

[bimble]

Good news! Mr Mistry at Lambeth has promised to fix their website so that if you look for ongoing consultations in the borough, something will appear telling you that there is a consultation ongoing here and whom to contact with ideas and feedback about the current trial. so that it might look a bit more as promised,

 

[teuchter]

Quite a silly and simplistic analogy, I think, but before I reply can you define what you mean by "structural element of the road network" and how you distinguish them from non-structural elements, please.

Still awaiting clarification from irf520 on this.

 

[bimble]

I know you're asking 520 about this but I'm going to have a go.
Maybe something counts as a "structural element of the road network" if it was the one street in a given locality which was wide enough to allow two buses to pass one another comfortably whilst parked cars line both sides.

 

[CH1]

Here is an intriguing snippet, a cycling lawyer trying to whip up support for the closures made a blog post which has been removed since i stumbled on it last week........ luckily the cached version still exists..................

Lambeth Council to decide on closure of Loughborough Road « Personal Injury Blog

..............it appears she thinks the closure zone has " good space for cycling "

View attachment 78075

Nice to see that firm has a Polish section and also deal with "Psychiatric Injury" to cyclists - presumably they mean PTSD but forgot what the current technical term was.

 

[bimble]

Nice to see that firm has a Polish section and also deal with "Psychiatric Injury" to cyclists - presumably they mean PTSD but forgot what the current technical term was.

Talking about Polish sections and psychiatric injuries,
I got this yesterday, when I tried to email the lead at Stockwell Partnership, the one in charge of the ongoing consultation about LJ road closures.

 

[AlexH]

I live near Loughborough Road and can see the traffic and ambulances have never had any problems driving up it at any time of day before the closures.

Emergency Vehicles are not permitted to ignore No Entry/Road Closed signs.

 

[AlexH]

I wonder why she removed it, maybe she's observed that cycling around the junction and down coldharbour lane has become extremely unpleasant and things were better before.

Whenever people say that thing about "an pedestrianized zone apart from buses and cycles' it confuses me. Had this idea about pedestrian zones that they were just for people moving around in a quite relaxed manner on feet. I don't really see the point otherwise.

The so-called pedestrian zone is anything but. Cyclists, Buses, and allowed vehicular access to 2 nearby roads Ridgway and Rathgar (according to the signs). Not to mention emergency services if they need to (though it contravenes the Highway Code) So be careful if you fancy strolling around.

 

[Aeryn]

Here is an intriguing snippet, a cycling lawyer trying to whip up support for the closures made a blog post which has been removed since i stumbled on it last week........ luckily the cached version still exists..................

Lambeth Council to decide on closure of Loughborough Road « Personal Injury Blog

..............it appears she thinks the closure zone has " good space for cycling "

View attachment 78075

Yeah, she says the bad bit is the bit between Fiveways and Brixton Road. She's right, that bit's awful. But it's awful due to the parked cars, and it's outside the closure zone. So I'm not sure how the closures are meant to help. I haven't seen much difference on my morning commute so far (though tbf since cars are still going through the closed sections maybe that's no surprise).

 

[bimble]

Here's a sad thing.
More evidence that the only air quality measurement that will be part of the evaluation of this scheme is the pollution level on Loughborough Road.

As in.. the measurements will only show that a closed road is less polluted than a road which has lots of vehicles on it.

This is how the scrutiny response document explains the air quality assessment plan:



This seems very clear.

No other air quality measurements are planned and no other measurements, like for instance in adjoining streets, have been taken as baselines.
So all we can possibly learn from this is that a closed road is better for you than one with cars on.

 

[LadyV]

Milkwood and Hinton Roads are classified as B222 so surely TfL would forbid their being closed

Out of curiosity, what does that mean classified as B222? Is that the road number or a type of road? And why would TfL forbid them being closed? No buses or public transport go down there. In fact why would TfL forbid any road being closed?

 

[teuchter]

Some roads (main roads) are the responsibility of TfL, and the rest are the responsibility of local authorities. I think.

So if Hinton Rd is a TfL controlled road, Lambeth would have to agree changes with them (again, I think).

 

[Angellic]

Out of curiosity, what does that mean classified as B222? Is that the road number or a type of road? And why would TfL forbid them being closed? No buses or public transport go down there. In fact why would TfL forbid any road being closed?

I found this but note the article only received 2 stars.

B222 - Roader's Digest: The SABRE Wiki

 

[teuchter]

I found this but note the article only received 2 stars.

B222 - Roader's Digest: The SABRE Wiki

No contest for the A4061, boasting a 5 star article which identifies it as "a bit of a dark horse".

 

[bimble]

The so-called pedestrian zone is anything but. Cyclists, Buses, and allowed vehicular access to 2 nearby roads Ridgway and Rathgar (according to the signs). Not to mention emergency services if they need to (though it contravenes the Highway Code) So be careful if you fancy strolling around.

So no picnics in the middle of the new public space then, no bouncy castles or farmers market or kids playing happily under cherry trees.

 

[LadyV]

So who's going to the planning meeting this evening? And what do we think the chances of it being completely over run by anti-road closure people?

 

[bimble]

So who's going to the planning meeting this evening? And what do we think the chances of it being completely over run by anti-road closure people?

Both George Wright who is running the experiment and the woman at Stockwell Partnership who has the task of carrying out all qualitative research on it are both away on leave, say their emails.
I imagine Clare Neely will be there though.

 

[xsunnysuex]

So who's going to the planning meeting this evening? And what do we think the chances of it being completely over run by anti-road closure people?

Seeing as the road closures are on the agenda, I'd say it's pretty likely.

 

[bimble]

Of course, people who feel strongly about a thing will probably turn up to an open meeting where they hope to get heard, only not sure who will be there to listen.

 

[xsunnysuex]

Of course, people who feel strongly about a thing will probably turn up to an open meeting where they hope to get heard, only not sure who will be there to listen.

It says this on the LJ Road Madness facebook page.

6. Road closures – 8 week evaluation – presentation by.
Steve Griffin and Aga Kulesa from the Stockwell Partnership.
Representatives from Lambeth’s traffic and communications teams will
also be present.

 

[bimble]

Yes, I know. Just that I got email bounceback out of office replies from Aga (lead on this at stockwell) and from George (lead at Lambeth on it) yesterday, both saying they're on leave (until 21st and 28th)(.

 

[bimble]

just got this from Stockwell Partnership:

'Aga is coming to the meeting tonight but then away until the week after next.
There’s going to be several people doing survey sessions on the streets and in local businesses over a fortnight starting next week.'

 

[teuchter]

Complete waste of resources. The scheme's not been in long enough to see meaningful effects, especially given that the closures are obviously still being widely ignored by drivers.

So, to appease a shouty facebook group who aren't prepared to let the experiment run before jumping to conclusions, money down the drain on surveys that will garner little useful information.

 

[LadyV]

Both George Wright who is running the experiment and the woman at Stockwell Partnership who has the task of carrying out all qualitative research on it are both away on leave, say their emails.
I imagine Clare Neely will be there though.

I actually meant out of us lot but good to know who will be trying to speak over the top of lots of jeers and catcalls

 

[bimble]

I agree, would be a total waste of time for everyone if that's what it ends up being like in there this eve. I'm going to miss it, so any jeering isn't me.
Also, Matt Parr has apparently got himself a really loud microphone.

 

[LadyV]

I agree, it would be a total waste of time for everyone if that's what it ends up being like in there this eve. I'm going to miss it, so any jeering isn't me.

I'm going to try to go, depends if I get out of work on time, merely to quietly observe rather than to jeer. I figure that if I'm going to criticise things on here, I should make an effort to go to events which help shape those things and see what happens. I had always intended to go to earlier meetings but they're invariably too early for me, I'm usually still at work at 6.30, never mind near home and in the mood to go to one of these.

 

[bimble]

I'm going to try to go, depends if I get out of work on time, merely to quietly observe rather than to jeer.

It would be great if someone here could do their own brief version of minutes.
(would definitely be there, was at the last one, just important work thing this eve)

 

[Angellic]

So who's going to the planning meeting this evening? And what do we think the chances of it being completely over run by anti-road closure people?

It would be great if someone here could do their own brief version of minutes.
(would definitely be there, was at the last one, just important work thing this eve)

I won't be able to make it tonight.