He's probably gone to see if he can find some more roads to close. Or some evil motorists to harass. Maybe he's gone down to one of the closures with a video camera to film people going through the no entry signs so he can grass them up.
Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins
- Thread starter Leo Chesterton
- Start date
He's probably gone to see if he can find some more roads to close. Or some evil motorists to harass. Maybe he's gone down to one of the closures with a video camera to film people going through the no entry signs so he can grass them up.
ChrisSouth
Well-Known Member
And if you mix your metaphors as well as using a big red typeface, it makes it doubly true.
LJAG have clearly been busy if they've found the time to change their horses whilst doing a U Turn. No wonder they've only done exactly what they said they were going to do.
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bimble
floofy
That's me, I have a machine for that, it straps on your back with an old gramaphone type nozzle on top and you have to walk at a steady pace around the junction taking readings. Current despondency level remarkably low. I attribute this to an unusual wave of righteous indignation and activism in the area but things usually settle down to base rate average in the high seventies by November.
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concerned1
behind the small print
Just been spotted on Loughborough Estate Cllr Brathwaite and George Wright.
Over 2000 signatures now on Lambeth Council: Reverse the Loughborough Junction Road Closures Now!
Over 2000 signatures now on Lambeth Council: Reverse the Loughborough Junction Road Closures Now!
bimble
floofy
Can you see how part of the problem here may be that LJAG (which I believe has good if blinkered intentions in promoting its particular vision of the future for LJ but never claimed to try to represent everybody who lives here) is led by a professional journalist and tends to attract the combined efforts of residents who as a group are very practiced and comfortable at communicating with the powers that be?
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snowy_again
Slush
Are you seriously crediting a journalist with good written communication skills? What do you think sub editors are for?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
How does the rate of cyclist hospitalisation pre- and post- closures compare? (And please provide some details of the geographical area you are taking your samples from)
Are you confident your two-or-three week sample period of post-closure cyclist hospitalisation rate represents information that you can extrapolate anything meaningful from? (Clue: answer is almost certainly not).
I'm not really surprised that you're using such offensive and disingenuous tactics to try and present your argument.
LadyV
Well-Known Member
Seriously? Why does this have to be so personal? He's got just as much right to his opinion as anyone else, the fact his opinion is different to yours does not make this post necessary, if you want someone to vent at, go for one of the people that made this happen, ie the council.
bimble
floofy
Hi Teuchter. any response to post 1648? x
teuchter
je suis teuchter
You put me on ignore for being rude, and now you are saying I'm rude for ignoring you? Excellent work as ever.
They were proposed as part of the outcome of the initial "masterplan" by Lambeth/LJAG/DSDHA. They were accepted and carried forward by Lambeth, as I understand it because they fitted in with their broader transport strategy. It seems LCC had some input as well. I think you can work all this out by reading information already posted on this thread, if that's not too much bother for you.
I think it has the potential to meet all of those aims.
Again, this is information easily gleaned by reading my previous posts on this thread, which is why it's a bit of a waste of my time answering them again. I propose you put me back on ignore.
bimble
floofy
Agree. I am just really annoyed by how he seems to insist that this particular scheme is a net gain environmentally, that it makes life better for pedestrians, or makes public transport better, or improves the 'public realm in LJ, or reduces the fumes we have to breathe. I am all for measures to do those things but as far as I can see this is a total failure on all counts.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I am not a member of the LCC or any other "cycling-related" organisation that I can think of.
The last time I was on a bike was last Friday afternoon when I cycled from Sevenoaks to Guildford on a mid-90s Specialised Hardrock (some original components replaced). The weather was good and I had quite a nice ride thanks.
The last time I cycled in London was about two weeks ago when I used a Boris Bike to get from Elephant and Castle to the Fenchurch Street area. I do not cycle in London very much but do so occasionally when it's the quickest/easiest mode for the job.
If I could get a place in a Bike Hangar near where I live, I would probably cycle a bit more in London. At the moment keeping a bike in a smallish flat is more hassle than it's worth. Better cycle facilities, well maintained cycle lanes and more traffic calming would also encourage me to cycle more regularly.
I have a driving license, but have never owned a car. I am a member of Zipcar and use their cars/vans when it's necessary for me to do so within London, which over the past few years has been perhaps 5 or 6 times a year. I have on several occasions used the route down Loughborough road.
I hope this provides you with a sufficiently detailed declaration of my interests and cyclist/motorist profile to continue making further, better informed judgements about my fascist endeavours.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
This conclusion based on visions seen in your crystal ball no doubt.
bimble
floofy
"They were proposed as part of the outcome of the initial "masterplan"
The masterplan does not have any road closures in it at all . Does it? Am I mistaken ? Please advise.
"They were accepted and carried forward by Lambeth, as I understand it because they fitted in with their broader transport strategy" .
I am still waiting (2 weeks) for a response from GW about whether or not I somehow misunderstood the document which says that the air quality assessment of this scheme will consist of a two hour stint on the closed Loughborough Road with CHL as the control: CHL as the control means any changes in the adjoining road and main hub will be attributed to weather conditions or some other outlier. If you think this really is part of a considered and planned air pollution reduction agenda, to improve the air pedestrians breathe, please point me towards anything at all that might help show how that is the case.
"I think it has the potential to meet all of those aims."
Please if you have time just let me know, which of these you feel show signs of improvement so far since the trial began:
1) better public realm
2) streets that are better for pedestrians
3) better for public transport users
4) better for cyclists
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LadyV
Well-Known Member
Yes but again, that's his opinion and he is entitled to it. He's also not alone in that opinion. I don't want the closures any more than you but that doesn't mean it's worth getting annoyed about. We need to be getting annoyed with the right people.
bimble
floofy
Did anyone invite them in for a biscuit and frank exchange of views?
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
One problem with the road closure may be that it does not go far enough.
Right now, 'though' drivers can divert around it, apparently causing congestion.
More comprehensive closures could deliver what you say you want:
Better for pedestrians
Better (quicker) public transport
Environmental (carbon-cutting) gains
Reduced (deadly) fumes
bimble
floofy
My crystal ball is unreliable. I do live here though and as a non driver I do most of my shopping and walks into Brixton along Coldharbour lane.
bimble
floofy
For me personally just my own self interest yes. Please bring it on, make the whole city a pedestrian bus tram cycle rickshaw heaven, with electric taxis once or twice a year. Bring in more bold measures to get people out of their cars if possible or change to less polluting ones, and fines or anyone who bangs their horn just to express how they feel. And pedaloes on the river please.
But this just here this peculiar trial is a disaster.
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bimble
floofy
2,054 is a big number. Can't all be jeremy clarkson.
Lambeth Council: Reverse the Loughborough Junction Road Closures Now!
Lambeth Council: Reverse the Loughborough Junction Road Closures Now!
teuchter
je suis teuchter
As far as I can see the initial masterplan did not propose road closures. It proposed various alterations to the street around the top of LR including a new crossing, raised surfaces etc. with the general aim of making it more friendly to pedestrians and cyclists and encouraging its use as a public space. There are multiple public realm improval proposals along that stretch of road, including down to the Hero Of Switzerland.
It appears to me that this was subsequently developed further to include the idea of closing it off as a through route for motor vehicles. In my opinion that is entirely compatible with the aims I have summarised above. In adition it fits within Lambeth's cycling strategy. It seems like a decision consistent with the aims of the initial masterplan and transport policy. It is quite a brave decision actually because such proposals do have a history of drawing opposition.
I can't comemnt any further on the detailed machinations of the process of arriving at that point because I wasn't there and wasn't involved. I expect Lambeth were lobbied both by members of LJAG and LCC and I would have supported them in doing so.
Based on the limited information available, the air testing as proposed appears inadequate to me. It seems likely that it will not provide convincing enough evidence either way.
Woudl I like to see it done properly so that we have better information on which to base decision making? Yes.
Is it measuring the sole, or most important potential positive outcome of this project? No.
If the air pollution measurements provide limited information, is that a reason to write off the whole project? No.
How many times do I have to say that trying to assess outcomes is pointless until the trial has been allowed to run for a decent amount of time?
Ask me again in 3 months or 6 months' time.
At that point I am sure you will be able to bring your own observations too.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
2,054 people willing to pass judgement on the outcome of an incomplete experiment.
bimble
floofy
Your considered response is appreciated.
I agree, it would be really helpful if we understood where the idea came from in the first place.
Or if there were plans in place to ascertain whether or not this would make air quality better for people who live here.
Like if this was in any way a coherent part of a wider pollution reduction strategy.
Or if there were any measures in place to help us figure out conclusively what the benefits might be to pedestrians cyclists and public transport users.
Let's agree to wait and see what the results are then, from the research that is being conducted on all these fronts.
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The new planners (Fluid, working on the LJ Masterplan) did not suggest the road closures.
They were suggested by the old planners (DSDHA who produced the LJ Plan). But it was not mentioned in the Plan: it must have been developed later.
It was touched on in the Feb 2014 LJAG/Lambeth Public Realm meeting minutes:
Narrow Loughborough Road and Hinton Road making Coldharbour Lane the main route through LJ. RA [Richard Ambler, Lambeth Cycling Officer]: "this would tie in well with this being a cycle quietway."
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
You say this, but at the same time are continually promoting the petition which is asking for the experiment to be scrapped rather than letting it run and making a decision based on the results.
So, which is it? Do you want it scrapped or do you want to wait for the results?
Angellic
Well-Known Member
Sadly, the whole scheme seems to be ignored a lot of the time. I saw plenty of traffic there on Sunday evening so cannot see how there can be an adequate assessment.
Would not Lambeth retain its dignity and the confidence of the public if it stopped this experiment immediately? I think it would -- and they must have learned enough already.
Back at the drawing board they could design a better scheme and plan to implement it at a more suitable time in proper collaboration with TfL and Southwark.
Back at the drawing board they could design a better scheme and plan to implement it at a more suitable time in proper collaboration with TfL and Southwark.
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bimble
floofy
Which results?
I am not aware of any research at all going on so far from Lambeth (quantitative) or its appointed partners at Stockwell Partnership (qualitative). Both seem postponed to some unknown date.
All I can find out about the plans to eventually measure its success or failure make me laugh, in a not funny way.
The only data being compiled that I know about is being cobbled together by angry residents, frustrated bus drivers, a concerned ambulance worker etc. So not up to your standards of being worth consideration.
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