Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins
- Thread starter Leo Chesterton
- Start date
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
It's been going on for at least a week.
editor
hiraethified
The traffic along Coldharbour Lane has been horrendous for weeks. I wouldn't like to be living in the flats that face directly on to the road because there's got to be a load of pollution building up with all that idling traffic. The endless beeping of frustrated horns is getting on my nerves too.
Coldharbour Lane gridlock as the Loughborough Junction closure experiment goes pear shaped
Coldharbour Lane gridlock as the Loughborough Junction closure experiment goes pear shaped
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Well it sucks and my daughter has been voicing her agreement, very loudly indeed.
Are there any other diversions or road works ongoing?
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Road closures take a few a weeks to resolve. If it's the same in a months time then it will have been failure but let's wait an see.
If you compare it to the Herne Hill closure then it is a bit flawed because there's no alternative through route. On the other hand there's too much traffic so anything that encourages bus use, walking & cycling I support.
Thanks Gramsci for your informative post from the meeting.
If you compare it to the Herne Hill closure then it is a bit flawed because there's no alternative through route. On the other hand there's too much traffic so anything that encourages bus use, walking & cycling I support.
Thanks Gramsci for your informative post from the meeting.
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editor
hiraethified
I don't think it's making Coldharbour Lane a very appealing place to walk or cycle along.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
There are roadworks going on around Loughborough Junction at the moment. A load of temporary lights have been sitting there for a bit although I'm not sure whether they've been in operation yet.
And yes DJWrongspeed it has to be given a bit of time while drivers find alternative routes (or ideally start using alternative modes of transport more).
It's a shame it's being attacked on Brixton Buzz before it has had time to settle in.
And yes DJWrongspeed it has to be given a bit of time while drivers find alternative routes (or ideally start using alternative modes of transport more).
It's a shame it's being attacked on Brixton Buzz before it has had time to settle in.
editor
hiraethified
There's a growing amount of very angry reader comments on the Buzz feature. Good point about ambulances getting through to Kings. I saw one progressing very slowly yesterday because of the gridlocked traffic.
ChrisSouth
Well-Known Member
The traffic along Coldharbour Lane has been horrendous for weeks. I wouldn't like to be living in the flats that face directly on to the road because there's got to be a load of pollution building up with all that idling traffic. The endless beeping of frustrated horns is getting on my nerves too.
Coldharbour Lane gridlock as the Loughborough Junction closure experiment goes pear shaped
I agree that it's horrible and last night was particularly vile. But I don't think the problem is solely the LJ pilot closure. When I eventually got to LJ last night (by bike), once through the lights at the ex-Green Man, traffic is speeding through (relatively at least: it is rush hour), towards Camberwell.
A lot of the slowing of the route is caused by cars and coaches turning left or right onto Colhdarbour Lane, going north from Shakespeare Road. This junction seems a lot more busy recently, but I'm not sure how that can be linked to the pilot closure. Of course, a little while ago, a number of posters were happy to see the new pedestrian crossing and built out pavements at the bottom of LJ. These are clearly having an impact on traffic flow.
In addition, as Teuchter notes, there's a lot of other road and pavement works at present.
My hunch is that there isn't one specific thing that's causing these tailbacks, and I think it wrong to blame solely the pilot closure. Rather, this is a result of aggregate changes to a range of variables. Yesterday was probably also compounded by the rain and the vans delivering to Tesco and the shop opposite.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I did note at the time that the built out pavements were a potential problem - and I think I mentioned how passengers get "thrown" descending the stairs as the buses come into the Shakespeare Road bus stop (CHL southside). I'll try and find the link.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Built out pavement - link Loughborough Junction chitter-chatter
I think Lambeth's problem is they go for overkill, but are under-resourced.
If they just tinkered gently - such as putting in a zebra everyone wanted, without doing thousands of pounds worth of repaving, road narrowing etc etc we might get somewhere (and have more money available for the next incremental improvement).
IMHO with this Loughborough Road scheme they have vastly under-budgeted, under consulted - including Police, emergency services etc.
I doubt they have the resources in Lambeth Transport planning to make it work. It will have to be scrapped.
I think Lambeth's problem is they go for overkill, but are under-resourced.
If they just tinkered gently - such as putting in a zebra everyone wanted, without doing thousands of pounds worth of repaving, road narrowing etc etc we might get somewhere (and have more money available for the next incremental improvement).
IMHO with this Loughborough Road scheme they have vastly under-budgeted, under consulted - including Police, emergency services etc.
I doubt they have the resources in Lambeth Transport planning to make it work. It will have to be scrapped.
ChrisSouth
Well-Known Member
concerned1
behind the small print
teuchter
je suis teuchter
As the Buzz article is extensive in its coverage of reactionary outrage but short on any detail or investigation into what's really going on, I thought I'd go and have a look what was actually happening with the traffic in LJ. These all taken 6.30pm ish so tail end of rush hour.
Reading comments on here attributing a sudden increase in congestion on CHL to the Loughborough Road closures, I assumed this meant they were now actually being enforced/observed. However, there still seems to be a steady flow of vehicles. I saw one or two slow down and hesitate but most were just sailing on through.
Meanwhile the traffic situation on CHL - no obvious congestion heading towards Brixton
But definitely busy through central LJ, with queues building up each time the light went red..
All suggests to me that a portion of the traffic passing through central LJ is still traffic that is using Loughborough Road. If Loughborough Rd were actually closed (the closure is clearly still ineffectual) the question is whether this traffic would carry on down CHL towards Brixton, or would it seek alternative routes altogether, meaning that it would be removed from the flow along CHL altogether?
We'll never know unless the closures are actually enforced. And the current situation doesn't tell us anything about the effect of the closures, because they aren't being observed.
One thing that ocurred to me by the way, is that the traffic lights at the Loughborough Rd/CHL junction are presumably still operating as they were before. So, even if the closure was being enforced, they would be stopping traffic along CHL to wait for a non-existent flow in/out of LR. I assume they could be re-phased if the closures were permanent, to make thing work as efficiently as possible with the new arrangement.
I also wondered if it would have been possible to rephase them for the experimental period. So they turned green just long enough to let the occasional bus through, on the basis of assuming there would be no traffic queue. Maybe that would have helped put people off trying to ignore the closure.
Reading comments on here attributing a sudden increase in congestion on CHL to the Loughborough Road closures, I assumed this meant they were now actually being enforced/observed. However, there still seems to be a steady flow of vehicles. I saw one or two slow down and hesitate but most were just sailing on through.
Meanwhile the traffic situation on CHL - no obvious congestion heading towards Brixton
But definitely busy through central LJ, with queues building up each time the light went red..
All suggests to me that a portion of the traffic passing through central LJ is still traffic that is using Loughborough Road. If Loughborough Rd were actually closed (the closure is clearly still ineffectual) the question is whether this traffic would carry on down CHL towards Brixton, or would it seek alternative routes altogether, meaning that it would be removed from the flow along CHL altogether?
We'll never know unless the closures are actually enforced. And the current situation doesn't tell us anything about the effect of the closures, because they aren't being observed.
One thing that ocurred to me by the way, is that the traffic lights at the Loughborough Rd/CHL junction are presumably still operating as they were before. So, even if the closure was being enforced, they would be stopping traffic along CHL to wait for a non-existent flow in/out of LR. I assume they could be re-phased if the closures were permanent, to make thing work as efficiently as possible with the new arrangement.
I also wondered if it would have been possible to rephase them for the experimental period. So they turned green just long enough to let the occasional bus through, on the basis of assuming there would be no traffic queue. Maybe that would have helped put people off trying to ignore the closure.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
By the way I don't really understand the objection to the "built out pavement" at the zebra crossing at the end of Shakespeare Rd. Here is what we had before:
And what there is now:
Which seems way better to me - much more pedestrian friendly, and with a new small public space with seating and planting (and I see people using it a fair bit). The pavement has been "built out" by, what, a metre and a half (think of the cost in paving stones!!)? It makes sense to me - shortens the length of the crossing for pedestrians and makes them more visible to drivers when attempting to cross (especially when a bus is pulled into the stop). It was a two lane road before and it's a two lane road now, so what's the problem? If cars were using the extra width to overtake at this point then they shouldn't have been, and allowing it to continue would make the zebra crossing dangerous. The bus stop has not been moved out into the street.
It all seems to make sense to me and is a positive change that I'm happy for money to have been spent on. I welcome these kinds of improvements.
If it slows down the traffic a bit, then firstly that's a good thing as drivers shouldn't be tearing around that corner anyway, but also, if it makes things better for pedestrians then that's much more beneficial to the greater good than shaving a couple of minutes off car journeys, a large proportion of which aren't even necessary in the first place.
And what there is now:
Which seems way better to me - much more pedestrian friendly, and with a new small public space with seating and planting (and I see people using it a fair bit). The pavement has been "built out" by, what, a metre and a half (think of the cost in paving stones!!)? It makes sense to me - shortens the length of the crossing for pedestrians and makes them more visible to drivers when attempting to cross (especially when a bus is pulled into the stop). It was a two lane road before and it's a two lane road now, so what's the problem? If cars were using the extra width to overtake at this point then they shouldn't have been, and allowing it to continue would make the zebra crossing dangerous. The bus stop has not been moved out into the street.
It all seems to make sense to me and is a positive change that I'm happy for money to have been spent on. I welcome these kinds of improvements.
If it slows down the traffic a bit, then firstly that's a good thing as drivers shouldn't be tearing around that corner anyway, but also, if it makes things better for pedestrians then that's much more beneficial to the greater good than shaving a couple of minutes off car journeys, a large proportion of which aren't even necessary in the first place.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Quite. This, from the BBuzz comments for example
If it was a 5 minute journey, why drive?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Good for Brixton Buzz, standing up for the outraged motorists of South London. All that Reclaim The Streets stuff - I guess it was for the parties and not the politics.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yes indeed.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
This was queried at the LJAG meeting up thread. G Wright stated that the phasing of traffic lights was a matter for TFL and beyond his control.
Wouldn't you have thought that Lambeth and TFL would sort out a joint approach BEFORE launching a major change in south London traffic flows?
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Your pictures seem to distort the view (speaking as a pedestrian and bus user).
I think creating a pinch point there is not necessarily helpful. And it doesn't stop out of hours speeding motorcyclists doing themselves major damage either.
It is a stupid idea creating such a narrow thoroughfare right by two bus stops anyway. Either causes a hold up to all traffic - or car drivers taking risks at rush hours.
editor
hiraethified
Maybe they were disabled? Maybe they were carrying a heavy load. Maybe they meant that a part of their journey that normally took 5 minutes ended up taking much longer.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Who knows? But people do make short journeys in cars, where the healthier (for everyone) option would be to walk etc. I know I have.
editor
hiraethified
Yes, and of course I agree with that.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Is this the post Teuchter was banned for?
It does seem fair to highlight the fact that almost 20 years ago many of us were participating in direct action and impromptu road closures to demand that the rights of pedestrians be rebalance with those of motorists. To give us more control over the public realm.
Those protests did influence policy and although it has been slow there has been progress which is picking up pace. It is clear that the balance is still a very long way from being redressed, so it does seem strange for "local press" to be so very strongly critical of recent changes, with much of its criticism focused on the unacceptable inconvenience to motorists and their apparently justified outrage.
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