SpamMisery
Pretty comfortable here right under your skin
Bit mental if he was banned for the posts visible in this thread.
Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins
- Thread starter Leo Chesterton
- Start date
Bit mental if he was banned for the posts visible in this thread.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Agree, although far away the Oval/Kennington nightmare might mean people are diverting south as well. No idea why changing a junction takes 11 months
Road users are rightly up in arms.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Yeah what's all this about, can the Mods explain ?
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Ban list says he was engaging in disruptive personal comments after... [presumably after being warned?]
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
I can't see any reason for a ban tbh, but the closures at LJ are about a different kind of control over the public realm, specifically the annexing of LJ by the well to do........
Peanut Monkey
Flea-Bit of CHL.
The traffic along Coldharbour Lane has been horrendous for weeks. I wouldn't like to be living in the flats that face directly on to the road because there's got to be a load of pollution building up with all that idling traffic. The endless beeping of frustrated horns is getting on my nerves too.
Coldharbour Lane gridlock as the Loughborough Junction closure experiment goes pear shaped
We're on that stretch of road and it's massively busier, louder and dirtier. Our six-month old sleeps in a room facing out onto the street. It's grim.
editor
hiraethified
Sorry to hear that. I think Lambeth should introduce pollution monitoring ASAP because it has certainly appears to have got considerably worse.
concerned1
behind the small print
The whole thing is a total bodge job done by so called professionals who have clearly not got a clue about the processes of road closures and certainly very little about communication skills and making sure all the stakeholders are consulted with and that all the relevant Agencies are working together for the good of all.
Again I will say that George Wright did not even know Coldharbour Lane had two lanes and one clearly marked to take a right turn coming from Camberwell Green to go down Loughborough Road.
So many aspects have not been taken into consideration at all.
Has he considered or even discussed with TFL that completely CLOSING the Pedestrian Zone to ALL traffic on Saturday 26th Sept between midday to 9pm that the P5 bus will have to double back on itself as it will have to use Barrington Road then go back along Coldharbour Lane to Loughborough Park Road so they maintain the route???
With money as it is for many nowadays they have no caring whatsoever at all regarding the increased cocsts being forced onto a huge amount of people and businesses and for what a piece of road space..... meaningful town centre...... safer environment...... wonder what the latest excuse is for the closures ???
If you compare Loughborough Junction and Clapham Junction traffic wise there is NO need to CLOSE a road to make a more meaningful town centre. Yes one of the roads at Clapham junction is buses only but there is almost a line of buses continually along it and delivery vehicles have access to that road by smaller ones throughout it or the shops would not survive on it.
And sorry, but what on earth is there at Loughborough Junction in the way of "Town centre" shops to draw a crowd to???
Are there any leading high street retailers, is there even space for them?..... NO. There was a hairdressers on the corner of Loughborough/Ridgeway that has now vanished and a tatty looking second hand furniture shop has appeared or should I use the buz word popped up. Are there any touristy attractions, a library, museum, town hall? What are they going to do run out all the present long standing businesses to bring in their "meaningful town centre" dream? Yes clean up the place, encourage new opportunities when places become vacant, but close roads, destroy businesses, force traffic round small over parked roads, cause untold misery on so many. NO.
Again I will say that George Wright did not even know Coldharbour Lane had two lanes and one clearly marked to take a right turn coming from Camberwell Green to go down Loughborough Road.
So many aspects have not been taken into consideration at all.
Has he considered or even discussed with TFL that completely CLOSING the Pedestrian Zone to ALL traffic on Saturday 26th Sept between midday to 9pm that the P5 bus will have to double back on itself as it will have to use Barrington Road then go back along Coldharbour Lane to Loughborough Park Road so they maintain the route???
With money as it is for many nowadays they have no caring whatsoever at all regarding the increased cocsts being forced onto a huge amount of people and businesses and for what a piece of road space..... meaningful town centre...... safer environment...... wonder what the latest excuse is for the closures ???
If you compare Loughborough Junction and Clapham Junction traffic wise there is NO need to CLOSE a road to make a more meaningful town centre. Yes one of the roads at Clapham junction is buses only but there is almost a line of buses continually along it and delivery vehicles have access to that road by smaller ones throughout it or the shops would not survive on it.
And sorry, but what on earth is there at Loughborough Junction in the way of "Town centre" shops to draw a crowd to???
Are there any leading high street retailers, is there even space for them?..... NO. There was a hairdressers on the corner of Loughborough/Ridgeway that has now vanished and a tatty looking second hand furniture shop has appeared or should I use the buz word popped up. Are there any touristy attractions, a library, museum, town hall? What are they going to do run out all the present long standing businesses to bring in their "meaningful town centre" dream? Yes clean up the place, encourage new opportunities when places become vacant, but close roads, destroy businesses, force traffic round small over parked roads, cause untold misery on so many. NO.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
If I wanted to know what's happening on Brixton Buzz I'd read Brixton Buzz. Isn't a forum supposed to be for discussion?
This is like discussing a current affair in the politics forum and somebody cutting and pasting what people are saying in the guardian comments section
This is like discussing a current affair in the politics forum and somebody cutting and pasting what people are saying in the guardian comments section
editor
hiraethified
I would have thought that bringing in viewpoints and some of the issues raised by local residents would prove useful to the debate. There's been over 60 responses, so I've only posted up a small selection, and I think some make important points that should be discussed here.
Or do you think that no other opinions and experiences should be discussed, save of those who post here?
bimble
floofy
The qualitative research on the closure experiment is (according to the council) being handed over to something called the Stockwell Partnership. They are tasked with assessing everything apart from traffic flow at the designated points.
I've been emailing them to ask how they will carry out this very important consultation with local people.
As yet they said they have no plan in place.
They also said that it is not them but Lambeth who will be sending / delivering the 10,991 letters to local residents asking their views.
George Wright from Lambeth told me the opposite.
It is tempting to give up trying to chase people about how if at all local people are supposed to give their views.
I've been emailing them to ask how they will carry out this very important consultation with local people.
As yet they said they have no plan in place.
They also said that it is not them but Lambeth who will be sending / delivering the 10,991 letters to local residents asking their views.
George Wright from Lambeth told me the opposite.
It is tempting to give up trying to chase people about how if at all local people are supposed to give their views.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Maybe Stockwell Partnership were picked as independent of LJAG?
Not sure if challenging the methodology at this stage is good or bad.
Maybe interacting with the evaluators should be a job for a councillor (in case they feel compromised by direct public pressure) - and all three Coldharbour councillors have "come out" as sceptics of the scheme.
Is it possible for you to put these points to one of those - or do you because of your location come under Herne Hill councillors? Not sure of their views, but they also have a duty to listen to you.
I went to the hairdresser in Loughborough Rd this morning. The proprietor's son was presiding and very opposed to the road closure. I mentioned to him about the suggestion floated to close Hinton Road instead. He said yes - but that would mean also making the Herne Hill Road/Coldharbour Lane junction right turn only (presumably with the exception of the P4 bus).
He was adamant that the Loughborough Road traders are already affected, and he thought it would get worse if the scheme was not changed.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Some points in relation to latest posts.
- Im on the bit of CHL now. The traffic in evenings does not seem to be any more than it was before road closures.
- As teuchter says drivers are ignoring the road Loughborough road closure. It has less traffic on it but a lot just goes straight through in morning rush hour.
- The roads in London imo are getting more jammed with traffic. This is not feasible in long term. What is lacking is any real debate on how to change transport options.
- There is now a cycle highway being built in central London. This is already reducing road space for vehicles and slowing traffic. So criticism of LJ road closure on that basis ( that will affect emergency vehicles) applies to all the changes to roads to encourage cycling etc.
- I did assume that the road closures would stop all traffic in Loughborough road. In fact access to the estates and the car repair arches is allowed. Only a small section of Loughborough road is not for general traffic. Neither is it blocked off for emergency vehicles.
- Car owners are going to oppose any restriction of road use. Its not in there interest to support them. Some of the comments on the Brixton Buzz article and what I hear are starting to get on my nerves. Its knee jerk opposition without any alternative. I notice nearly all the comments are from car owners. The problem is that transport individually with car ownership as a fundamental aspect of it is not feasible in long term. Its also - and this is lost - about social class. The least well off cannot afford car ownership.
- Whats happened at LJ is that the argument around road closures is about class. About who is listened to and who not. But this is a deeper problem. I notice the Ward Cllrs are now supporting the Loughborough estate. A bit late in the day. I do know people on the estate who opposed this from the start basically because the see LJAG as middle class front to gentrify and take over LJ. I dont know what to do about this. Someone in LJAG asked me how to overcome this. I said they need to distance themselves from the Council. There is always danger Council will co opt a community organisation. A worrying example is the further consultation on the LJ masterplan. As the Planning Forum the Council said they cannot afford to consult further and will rely on LJAG for this. So Council are attempting to use LJAG as outsourced provider of services.That is some in Council see LJAG as tame community organisation they can use. As I told LJAG the other organisation who are quite happy to fulfill that role are Brixton Green. I don't think LJAG are comparable to BG at this time.
- I did propose that at the next LJ Neighbourhood planning forum that Stockwell partnership and the Cllr responsible (Braithwaite I think) should be invited to attend. That was agreed.
Why do you want to close Hinton Road? Is there really such a big problem with traffic through there? I've driven and walked through there loads of times and it never seemed that bad to me. It's certainly nowhere near as busy as Camberwell Green, let alone the disaster zone that is the centre of Brixton.
The traffic along Coldharbour Lane has been horrendous for weeks. I wouldn't like to be living in the flats that face directly on to the road because there's got to be a load of pollution building up with all that idling traffic. The endless beeping of frustrated horns is getting on my nerves too.
Coldharbour Lane gridlock as the Loughborough Junction closure experiment goes pear shaped
I wouldn't have said weeks. I reckon it's been bad for about two weeks now, which coincides quite nicely with the closures. Last Friday it was absolutely horrendous westbound - it was basically stationary from Denmark Road all the way to the Herne Hill Road junction. I couldn't see any obvious reason for it. However it makes sense if people have recently started getting warning letters in the post from the camera car.
Denmark Road has also been getting busier over that time.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Excellent post.
As you suggest, car ownership is not universal.
Is it not something like only 30pc of Lambeth households?
And yet drivers seem to come first.
Today I got an email reply from TfL admitting that they have shortened pedestrian crossing times at the Brixton Hill/Water Lane crossroads to suit motorists.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It came up at the LJ Neighbourhood Planning Forum.
Instead of closing Loughborough road to stop/ reduce through traffic coming down to LJ close Hinton road instead.
This was supported by the rep from Lambeth Cyclists present.
Also the Council tenants didn't object to the idea. As one of there complaints was that the road closures didn't affect the middle class areas ( there view of what constituted a middle class area.)
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This radio programme did start to deal with some of the issues of individual car ownership.
Basically saying that individual car ownership will go in the future. To be replaced by a range of transport services. Looked at how google are starting to look into this with the driverless car. A car one will hire not own.
One idea was that people will subscribe to a transport service on a flat rate per month. For this they will get access to a wide range of transport services- bus, the new driverless cars, taxi, underground. An app can be used to organise any trip needed.
Deliveries can be made by new flying drones instead of on roads. May sound all a bit futuristic but so would car use a hundred plus years ago.
All a bit high tech but at least the programme starts to look at alternative.
Another point made to me recently is to make work more locally based. A lot of transport is getting to and from work. Sometimes long distances. Same goes for services like shopping.
Basically saying that individual car ownership will go in the future. To be replaced by a range of transport services. Looked at how google are starting to look into this with the driverless car. A car one will hire not own.
One idea was that people will subscribe to a transport service on a flat rate per month. For this they will get access to a wide range of transport services- bus, the new driverless cars, taxi, underground. An app can be used to organise any trip needed.
Deliveries can be made by new flying drones instead of on roads. May sound all a bit futuristic but so would car use a hundred plus years ago.
All a bit high tech but at least the programme starts to look at alternative.
Another point made to me recently is to make work more locally based. A lot of transport is getting to and from work. Sometimes long distances. Same goes for services like shopping.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It appears more than that according to Lambeth Cyclists:
Its not a coincidence that they are both poor wards.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Because it is the conduit through which all the long distance through-traffic comes to/from Loughborough Road.
BTW I think the hairdresser's suggestion above (no right turn out of Herne Hill Road) would produce exactly the same problems for the owner-occupiers of the Herne Hill Road/Milkwood Road environs as the the tenants of Loughborough Estate are currently suffering. Can't see that taking - Cllr Dickson would veto it in a flash.
There you go bimble! The immediate area is Coldharbour but you may need details for the other two wards nearby…
Coldharbour ward: Mayor and Councillor Donatus Anywanu, Councillors Rachel Heywood and Matt Parr.
Cllr Anyanwu <DAnyanwu@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Heywood <rheywood@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Parr <mparr1@lambeth.gov.uk>
Vassall ward: Councillors Jacqui Dyer, Paul Gadsby and Annie Gallop
Cllr Dyer <JDyer3@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Gadsby <PGadsby@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Gallop <AGallop@lambeth.gov.uk>,
Herne Hill ward: Councillors Jack Holborn, Michelle Agdomar and Jim Dickson.
Cllr Holborn <JHolborn@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Agdomar <MAgdomar@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Dickson <jdickson@lambeth.gov.uk>
Coldharbour ward: Mayor and Councillor Donatus Anywanu, Councillors Rachel Heywood and Matt Parr.
Cllr Anyanwu <DAnyanwu@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Heywood <rheywood@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Parr <mparr1@lambeth.gov.uk>
Vassall ward: Councillors Jacqui Dyer, Paul Gadsby and Annie Gallop
Cllr Dyer <JDyer3@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Gadsby <PGadsby@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Gallop <AGallop@lambeth.gov.uk>,
Herne Hill ward: Councillors Jack Holborn, Michelle Agdomar and Jim Dickson.
Cllr Holborn <JHolborn@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Agdomar <MAgdomar@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cllr Dickson <jdickson@lambeth.gov.uk>
Last edited:
For info: here are the details of tomorrows 'Car Free Day' sent by email this morning by George Wright, the Project Manager:
Loughborough Road Car Free Day: Saturday 26 September 2015
A quick reminder to say that Loughborough Road will be closed to all traffic outside Wyck Gardens and Loughborough Farm between 12 noon and 9pm tomorrow.
The pop-up café at The Platform will be open during this time and the Farm will be open from 1pm.
Pop up parks will be there from 12.00 to 2.30pm to consult on the designs for a parklet planned for the Pedestrian Zone; the start of the greening of this road space.
Best wishes
George Wright, Project Manager, Capital Delivery Team, London Borough of Lambeth
T: 020 7926 0728 E: GWright@lambeth.gov.uk
Suite 4, Blue Star House, 234-244 Stockwell Road, London, SW9 9SP.
Loughborough Road Car Free Day: Saturday 26 September 2015
A quick reminder to say that Loughborough Road will be closed to all traffic outside Wyck Gardens and Loughborough Farm between 12 noon and 9pm tomorrow.
The pop-up café at The Platform will be open during this time and the Farm will be open from 1pm.
Pop up parks will be there from 12.00 to 2.30pm to consult on the designs for a parklet planned for the Pedestrian Zone; the start of the greening of this road space.
Best wishes
George Wright, Project Manager, Capital Delivery Team, London Borough of Lambeth
T: 020 7926 0728 E: GWright@lambeth.gov.uk
Suite 4, Blue Star House, 234-244 Stockwell Road, London, SW9 9SP.
editor
hiraethified
This has to be the least advertised Car Free Day of the lot. I'll see if I've got time to stick something on Buzz to promote it.
bimble
floofy
I don't have access anymore so I can't really see it but was just told - by cllr Rachel Haywood - about a facebook group called "LJ Road Madness" who will apparently be turning up to the car free day.
(I'm not as passionately against this as some people are, what makes me angry is just the complete lack of consultation with local people)
(I'm not as passionately against this as some people are, what makes me angry is just the complete lack of consultation with local people)
editor
hiraethified
I've quickly added something: Lambeth Car Free Day on Estreham Rd and Loughborough Rd, Sat 26 Sept
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