Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

[bimble]

They want local people to volunteer to build planters (made of recycled scaffolding planks) to block the roads.
That's what we are supposed to be putting our hands up for. I did take part in this a few weeks ago, but not when they were to be used a roadblocks.
See email from the council below regarding these small grants:

 

[CH1]

They want local people to volunteer to build planters (made of recycled scaffolding planks) to block the roads.
That's what we are supposed to be putting our hands up for. I did take part in this a few weeks ago, but not when they were to be used a roadblocks.
See email from the council below regarding these small grants:
View attachment 76638

That explains the grants then.

The cynic in me says that planters were enthusiastically deployed in Brixton Town Centre back in the early 1990s (courtesy of Brixton Challenge).
All the planters were removed only a few years later under Chief Executive Heather Rabbatts because they attracted litter, were difficult to clean and also screened petty crime from public view apparently.

 

[bimble]

The cynic in me is spoilt for choice, but yes, planters without good maintenance = bins.

 

[Beasley]

Last week my post about De Beauvoir Town in this forum went unnoticed but I do think it is worth another look, particularly as our local cycling campaigners claim it as their inspiration for this horrible scheme. Does anybody know it?

In Hackney the roads closed to traffic have been treated in a very subtle way with pavements, flowerbeds, shrubs and trees -- no untidy looking street signs, planters or other clutter -- it makes Lambeth's efforts look completely amateurish.

But, that said, De Beauvoir Town is very different from Loughborough Junction with a very different street pattern: a gridiron network of quiet mainly residential streets with, significantly, the streets that most resemble Loughborough Road kept open.

 

[leanderman]

Last week my post about De Beauvoir Town in this forum went unnoticed but I do think it is worth another look, particularly as our local cycling campaigners claim it as their inspiration for this horrible scheme. Over there it is the quieter residential roads that have been closed to traffic and this has been done very subtly with pavements, flowerbeds, shrubs and trees -- no untidy looking street signs or planters -- it makes Lambeth's efforts look completely amateurish.

But, that said, De Beauvoir Town is quite different from Loughborough Junction: a network of quiet streets in a gridiron pattern and (significantly) the streets there that most resemble Loughborough Road have been left open.

How interesting. Stark contrast between the two schemes.

Would love De B kind of thing up here. Any idea how it came about?

 

[teuchter]

In Hackney the roads closed to traffic have been treated in a very subtle way with pavements, flowerbeds, shrubs and trees -- no untidy looking street signs, planters or other clutter -- it makes Lambeth's efforts look completely amateurish.

Not quite a fair comparison as the scheme here is just a trial so of course they aren't going to relay pavements and so on. If the trial is a success then I'd hope there would be a proper redesign using planters and other elements.

Unfortunately it feels like we don't have much chance of getting something like the DBT scheme seeing as people seem determined to oppose it, and the "experiment" is being carried out in a completely shambolic way by Lambeth that there will hardly be any meaningful results at the end of it.

 

[teuchter]

It's not like you have to look as far as Hackney to see examples of similar schemes, by the way. The way some people are going on about it, you'd think it was some kind of radical, untried idea. But there are loads of examples of traffic calming schemes, and fairly extensive schemes to stop people using certain cut-through routes, all over London. And lots of examples of road sections closed to traffic for the purpose of establishing a better town centre. Herne Hill for example.

 

[Gramsci]

Last week my post about De Beauvoir Town in this forum went unnoticed but I do think it is worth another look, particularly as our local cycling campaigners claim it as their inspiration for this horrible scheme. Does anybody know it?

In Hackney the roads closed to traffic have been treated in a very subtle way with pavements, flowerbeds, shrubs and trees -- no untidy looking street signs, planters or other clutter -- it makes Lambeth's efforts look completely amateurish.

But, that said, De Beauvoir Town is very different from Loughborough Junction with a very different street pattern: a gridiron network of quiet mainly residential streets with, significantly, the streets that most resemble Loughborough Road kept open.

Not ignoring your posts. Just cannot always keep up with posts on Urban.

I do know DBT area.

You are correct its done in much more subtle way. However that area is off the main roads. Its not like LJ. The streets and housing is much more spread out with no light industrial business. The busy main roads go around the edges of the DBT area and not through it. Though I think its likely that the road closures stop short cuts and rat runs.

A problem with the LJ scheme is that its not just about traffic reduction its, as Council say, also one of the ways to make LJ a "destination" rather than somewhere to pass through. Instead of making an area "car free" its being used to redesign the area itself.

That and Network Rails/ Council newly found hostility to car repair business makes me understand why some in the area think its a middle class plot to gentrify the area.

 

[Gramsci]

They want local people to volunteer to build planters (made of recycled scaffolding planks) to block the roads.
That's what we are supposed to be putting our hands up for. I did take part in this a few weeks ago, but not when they were to be used a roadblocks.
See email from the council below regarding these small grants:

View attachment 76638

Thats an unusually frank opinion by a Council officer.

So the Council decide to close roads and they want you to spend your free time not only making planters but also maintain them for the Council?

The Council have got it into there heads that its good for us to be exhorted to do voluntary jobs as part of this Coop Council malarkey.

Like ordinary people don’t spend enough time just trying to keep there heads above water. Some in the Council are clueless about ordinary peoples lives. The people in my new off license in LJ work all hours.

 

[editor]

FYI: there's been over 30 comments about this scheme on the Buzz article: Experimental road closures coming to Loughborough Junction despite ‘fundamentally flawed’ criticism from Brixton Society
Five more to this article:
Six months of Loughborough Junction experimental road closures following ‘flawed’ Lambeth Council consultation
Six here:
Experimental road closures around Loughborough Junction ‘called in’ for scrutiny with residents arguing Lambeth Council consultation is flawed

 

[bimble]

Just checking .. is it correct that there's a meeting this evening at 6.30 ?
I get this idea from one of Gramsci's posts, there is nothing on the LJAG website, or as far as I can see on lambeth's.

 

[concerned1]

Hi bimble yes there is a meeting tonight of the Loughborough Neighbourhood planning forum

 

[concerned1]

Cars cars cars that's all people go on about on here and if people are rich enough to own one. Do you, those who are for this scheme think it is only about cars.
Half the traffic up and down Loughborough Road are business vehicles if not more than half.
Businesses have to travel through or to the closed in "KETTLED" areas. Yes I know kettled means protestors and police, this is without police but still closed in. And yes most within the roads are protesting AGAINST this scheme. But Lambeth do not want to listen to them, most do not own cars according to Richard Ambler.
But what of all the vehicles that need access to every property in these areas at some time or another?
What of all the vehicles that have to drive through these areas to further afield?
HoS holds many Wedding Receptions and Funeral Wakes. It is not about drivers drinking and driving. Lots of people have a nominated driver who does NOT drink so the rest of the group can.
I am sure the majority of people who post on these forums supporting the scheme do NOT live in the area or are affected by it and have to drive out of their way through small congested streets taking up way far too much of their time to and fro work etc.
This scheme is NOT making money for Lambeth in fact it is COSTING Lambeth Council as all their vehicles for and through the areas now have to travel much longer journeys.
In fact it is costing everyone in and surrounding and passing through.

 

[irf520]

100% agree with 'concerned1'.
Closing Loughborough Road has got to be one of the stupidest ideas ever. What do they think is going to happen to the traffic that currently uses it? Do they think it will magically disappear? Or that everyone will have a 'come to Green Jesus' moment and decide to cycle instead? If they really think that, they must be certifiably insane.
No, what will happen is that Coldharbour Lane will get more congested, the centre of Brixton will get more congested (if that's even possible...), Camberwell Green will get more congested, and the small roads in the Loughborough Junction area which are still open will get congested. Everyone's journeys will take longer, everyone will be more pissed off, there will be more accidents because, guess what, if you're pissed off you're less likely to concentrate and more likely to have an accident. Costs of doing business in the area will increase. And, supremely ironic for the tree huggers, there will be more pollution because vehicles stuck in a traffic jam produce more pollution than vehicles just getting on with their journey and clearing the area quickly.
They need to knock this stupid idea on the head and LJAG whoever they are need to keep their noses out of everyone else's business.

 

[bimble]

AMATEUR SURVEY about the road closures..
Please click on it if you have a moment:
Loughborough Junction Experimental Road Closures Survey

Results so far can be seen here
Loughborough Junction Experimental Road Closures

 

[teuchter]

AMATEUR SURVEY about the road closures..
Please click on it if you have a moment:
Loughborough Junction Experimental Road Closures Survey

Why are you asking people this before the experiment has even been completed?

There's no "I'd like to see the results of the experimental period before deciding" so I can't take part.

 

[bimble]

Why are you asking people this before the experiment has even been completed?

There's no "I'd like to see the results of the experimental period before deciding" so I can't take part.

I understand. Agree maybe it would be better to do this in a couple of months time.

My concern (after attending the meeting last night) is that Lambeth's plan for consultation is apparently nonexistent. They do not seem to have any concrete plan in place to gather qualitative data, only to measure the number of cars before and after.

Clearly people have strong feelings about this and the figure which Lambeth are using "68% of respondents support the closures" is deeply flawed.

 

[bimble]

There's no "I'd like to see the results of the experimental period before deciding" so I can't take part.

have added that option

 

[teuchter]

My concern (after attending the meeting last night) is that Lambeth's plan for consultation is apparently nonexistent. They do not seem to have any concrete plan in place to gather qualitative data, only to measure the number of cars before and after.

What was discussed at the meeting - was the fact that the current closures/signage appear to be ineffective acknowledged?

 

[bimble]

that was the only thing upon which there was consensus ..

 

[bimble]

About noncompliance:
The man from Lambeth said that the level of noncompliance was a big problem yes.
He also explained that they will begin fining drivers from next week (having just sent out 300 warning letters so far) and that a CCTV camera will be installed on Loughborough Road.
He acknowledged that the physical barriers may have to be removed as they do not seem to be working and are causing problems for emergency vehicles.

 

[CH1]

Three people at the meeting had decided that the the problem was with traffic coming from/going to Hinton Road and suggested Hinton Road should have been closed off instead of the current botched job where all local traffic is penalised, but through traffic continues unabated.

I recommended this here last November Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

 

[concerned1]

100% agree with 'concerned1'.
Closing Loughborough Road has got to be one of the stupidest ideas ever. What do they think is going to happen to the traffic that currently uses it? Do they think it will magically disappear? Or that everyone will have a 'come to Green Jesus' moment and decide to cycle instead? If they really think that, they must be certifiably insane.
No, what will happen is that Coldharbour Lane will get more congested, the centre of Brixton will get more congested (if that's even possible...), Camberwell Green will get more congested, and the small roads in the Loughborough Junction area which are still open will get congested. Everyone's journeys will take longer, everyone will be more pissed off, there will be more accidents because, guess what, if you're pissed off you're less likely to concentrate and more likely to have an accident. Costs of doing business in the area will increase. And, supremely ironic for the tree huggers, there will be more pollution because vehicles stuck in a traffic jam produce more pollution than vehicles just getting on with their journey and clearing the area quickly.
They need to knock this stupid idea on the head and LJAG whoever they are need to keep their noses out of everyone else's business.

So agree with you on all counts.
George Wright last night was told to remove these road closures now, his reply was that he does not have the authority, he was then told he can recommend it.

 

[concerned1]

According to George Wright last night he has closed 7 roads. He doesn't even KNOW what he has and hasn't done.
Wondering where the 7th road is ?
When questioned on how can emergency vehicles pass through the roads with barriers across them he appeared suprised and tried to explain they only partly cover Barrington Road but was then asked about Lilford Rd Gordon Grove and Calais Street to which his repsonse was that they would have to be removed.
Cars are now using a small estate road to cut through St James's Crescent to Barrington Road and end up on Loughborough Road.
No it cannot be closed it is an estate road for residents to their homes.
George has no plans to monitor any roads at present as to traffic counts. Because drivers are not complying, it makes sense to traffic count now on all the roads as this would then show the increase of traffic as the drivers comply.
Denmark Road was not counted beofre this scheme began and this is the first road that drivers on Coldharbour Lane will use coming from Herne Hill etc.
One of the lead cyclists supporting this scheme who was seen out leafletting cyclists to support it reported last night how it was very quiet on Calais Road interesting, no idea where that road is or is that the 7th road?

 

[bimble]

A couple of hours ago I met (by chance) someone called Chief Inspector Roy Smith.
He was chatting to irate residents at the roadblock on Gordon Grove.

He said he was completely unaware of the road closures until that moment, had serious concerns about what he saw there and would be getting in touch with George Wright.

 

[Winot]

What a fuck-up.

 

[irf520]

According to George Wright last night he has closed 7 roads. He doesn't even KNOW what he has and hasn't done.
Wondering where the 7th road is ?
When questioned on how can emergency vehicles pass through the roads with barriers across them he appeared suprised and tried to explain they only partly cover Barrington Road but was then asked about Lilford Rd Gordon Grove and Calais Street to which his repsonse was that they would have to be removed.
Cars are now using a small estate road to cut through St James's Crescent to Barrington Road and end up on Loughborough Road.
No it cannot be closed it is an estate road for residents to their homes.
George has no plans to monitor any roads at present as to traffic counts. Because drivers are not complying, it makes sense to traffic count now on all the roads as this would then show the increase of traffic as the drivers comply.
Denmark Road was not counted beofre this scheme began and this is the first road that drivers on Coldharbour Lane will use coming from Herne Hill etc.
One of the lead cyclists supporting this scheme who was seen out leafletting cyclists to support it reported last night how it was very quiet on Calais Road interesting, no idea where that road is or is that the 7th road?

Denmark Road is in Southwark, I believe, so I guess it's not their problem.
Calais Street is near Myatts Fields - up past Fiveways towards Camberwell New Road.
As far as I know there a 6 roads closed not 7.

Well, I had the dubious pleasure of driving through the area for the first time at peak time (around 6pm) this evening. Instead of just one queue at the end of Loughborough Road then straight down towards Herne Hill, turning off at Gubyon Avenue, I now have to sit in a queue at the end of Barrington Road, another one along Coldharbour Lane until I can turn off down Shakespeare Road and yet another one where Dulwich Road meets Norwood Road. Unbounded joy!

I'm sick to death of these cyclo-nazis trying to ram cycling down everyone's throat. Personally I have no interest whatsoever in cycling. They can shove it where the sun don't shine. It's not enough for them to fuck up all the main roads in order to put in segregated cycle lanes (anyone seen Victoria Embankment recently? or Blackfriars Road? or St George's Circus?), now they want to close all the back roads as well.

 

[Winot]

I'm sick to death of these cyclo-nazis trying to ram cycling down everyone's throat. Personally I have no interest whatsoever in cycling. They can shove it where the sun don't shine. It's not enough for them to fuck up all the main roads in order to put in segregated cycle lanes (anyone seen Victoria Embankment recently? or Blackfriars Road? or St George's Circus?), now they want to close all the back roads as well.

0/10

 

[Gramsci]

I am sure the majority of people who post on these forums supporting the scheme do NOT live in the area or are affected by it and have to drive out of their way through small congested streets taking up way far too much of their time to and fro work etc.

I live in the area and attended the meeting last night.

I am not in LJAG.

I am neither for or against the scheme at this time.

I cycle and use public transport as I cannot afford a car.

 

[Gramsci]

I'm sick to death of these cyclo-nazis trying to ram cycling down everyone's throat. Personally I have no interest whatsoever in cycling. They can shove it where the sun don't shine. It's not enough for them to fuck up all the main roads in order to put in segregated cycle lanes (anyone seen Victoria Embankment recently? or Blackfriars Road? or St George's Circus?), now they want to close all the back roads as well.

This is just abuse.

Its worse than abuse its comparing cyclists who want London to be a more cycle friendly place to people who exterminated the Jews.

Totally unacceptable and ignorant.

Bad as Black Cab drivers rep comparing cycling lobbying groups to Isis.