Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

[leanderman]

Dreadful journalism. A "news" story that consists of the account and opinion of one person.

From a technical, journalist's perspective, the quotes are good though.

Rarely does a malcontent state their case, however misguided, so succinctly.

Not sure why it is 'absolute chaos' when the closure has had so little effect.

 

[CH1]

Dreadful journalism. A "news" story that consists of the account and opinion of one person.

I imagine though that the resident quoted has better local knowledge of the Loughborough Road/Angel Road area than the councillor quoted and responsible for this debacle (who actually represents Gipsy Hill).

 

[CH1]

From a technical, journalist's perspective, the quotes are good though.
Rarely does a malcontent state their case, however misguided, so succinctly.
Not sure why it is 'absolute chaos' when the closure has had so little effect.

If he's got lorries backing up outside his house it will be chaos surely? Especially in a residential area where there are normally no lorries.

 

[leanderman]

If he's got lorries backing up outside his house it will be chaos surely? Especially in a residential area where there are normally no lorries.

If. And not absolute. Or even chaos.

The scheme may be off to bad start, which is a shame in the most congested city in Europe and whose adults are among the least active in the world (today's Economist):

 

[Gramsci]

If. And not absolute. Or even chaos.

The scheme may be off to bad start, which is a shame in the most congested city in Europe:

Looked this up and it comes from this

Population growth and urbanisation are key drivers of congestion, and the UK’s population grew by 491,100 last year, reaching a record high. London’s population also experienced high growth in 2014, increasing by 122,100 people[4]. This contributed to drivers in the capital spending 96 hours on average stuck in traffic, 14 hours more than in 2013, resulting in London becoming Europe’s most congested city.

Does seem to me that the amount of traffic on central London roads has got higher.

 

[ricbake]

https://goo.gl/photos/bBbMABrQKZzMwG7F8

Calais Street / Lillford Road, Barrington Road and Loughborough Road Closures being ignored - presumably Padfield Rd and Gordon Grove are the same.

When drivers were asked about ignoring the signage they invariably said they had not noticed it or seen any advanced warnings or indication that the road use had been altered in anyway. Having signage that is being so completely disregarded and unenforced or only occasionally enforced brings many new risks, problems and possible conflict to the street.

For this experiment to be brought in without better signage, advanced warnings and indications that the road use has been so radically altered is dangerous. On Calais Street drivers are avoiding on coming cars on a single track; aware there is a park and perhaps children; looking for pedestrians on the Zebra Crossing; checking for traffic at the cross roads; monitoring parked cars; without improved information it currently appears tantamount to encouraging motorists to break the law. They don't see the signs!

I realize that this experiment is very new but isn't functioning at any of the closure points. There was consultation and there does appear to be some dispute about how that was conducted. For it to arrive without any back up of additional temporary signage or advice to motorist about alternate routes seems very risky and quite likely to inspire road rage or cause accidents

 

[Gramsci]

When drivers were asked about ignoring the signage they invariably said they had not noticed it or seen any advanced warnings or indication that the road use had been altered in anyway. Having signage that is being so completely disregarded and unenforced or only occasionally enforced brings many new risks, problems and possible conflict to the street.

The signage on the cross roads at the Loughborough Road end is clear.

There are several signs. I have noticed a drop off in traffic on that road. So some must be taking notice of it.

Drivers would say they didn’t notice it. Its how it works in London. Unless there is actual closing off of road drivers will use it and disregard the signs. Unless they think a camera might get them.

I see the same kind of thing in West End. For example going down Rathbone place crossing Oxford street into Soho sq. Its not blocked off but cycles only. See cars sometimes going straight over into Soho sq. Reason most drivers do not take that short cut is they know there is camera there.

Not saying this is good to use cameras.

What I would say is that this kind of Dutch traffic system works ok in Holland because its a different culture over there. Had a chat with a Dutch traffic engineer I bumped into in Oxford street a while back who was surprised at how car centred roads are in London.

In London everyone is in a rush and bending the rules of the road to get around is how it works in reality. What is needed is a less pressured work culture.

 

[leanderman]

Yep. Having helped close this road a few times it's clear to me that drivers don't give a toss about signs. However many and however official.

This is a car city

 

[CH1]

I realize that this experiment is very new but isn't functioning at any of the closure points. There was consultation and there does appear to be some dispute about how that was conducted. For it to arrive without any back up of additional temporary signage or advice to motorist about alternate routes seems very risky and quite likely to inspire road rage or cause accidents

I doubt any motorists were consulted. Looks like the police weren't either.

There is a Police office right there at Loughborough Junction. They could pop out and stop cars until the carless scheme is properly working.
Apparently they're not bovvered.

 

[cuppa tee]

Yep. Having helped close this road a few times it's clear to me that drivers don't give a toss about signs. However many and however official.

This is a car city

Brixton news, rumour and general chat - Aug 2015

 

[Beasley]

https://goo.gl/photos/bBbMABrQKZzMwG7F8
When drivers were asked about ignoring the signage they invariably said they had not noticed it or seen any advanced warnings or indication that the road use had been altered in anyway.

Things may be about to change: see the email below that was sent on Friday by the project manager, George Wright, to people who contacted him during the 'consultation' period.

Good afternoon
I am writing to you because you have shown an interest in the experimental road closures that have recently been introduced across the Loughborough Junction and Myatt’s Field area.

The level of non-compliance across the closure zone is high and disappointing. Early next week, we shall be introducing a number of additional road markings and signs to further advise motorists that they should not be passing the point No Entry signs nor entering the Loughborough Road Pedestrians Zone. You may also see the CCTV car deployed around the area to record motorists who continue to pass the signs. Councillor Jennifer Brathwaite will be speaking with the Police to seek their assistance in educating motorists about the new measures.

Next week, we also plan to introduce barriers to reduce the width of the carriageways and send a further visual signal that there are restrictions in place. In the longer term we would like to replace these with planters and it would be good to know if there is the capacity with local groups to make/maintain the planters. There are funds available for this type of thing and the attachment gives more details of how local groups can apply for grants of up to £1000.

It is planned to close Loughborough Road Pedestrian Zone to all traffic including buses on the weekend of 26/27 September, so please think about getting involved in this event and maybe apply for some funds.

This is start of an ambitious experiment, so please bear with us.
Best wishes

 

[Beasley]

Job opportunity! Seen on Lambeth Cyclists forum:

Morning
We'd like to pay someone to hand out leaflets to motorists on Loughborough Road advising them that it is now a Ped Zone and they run the risk of a PCN if they continue to use the street.
Is there anyone you know who might be interested in this?
Cheers,
George Wright
T: 020 7926 0728 E: <GWright@lambeth.gov.uk>

 

[CH1]

Good afternoon
I am writing to you because you have shown an interest in the experimental road closures that have recently been introduced across the Loughborough Junction and Myatt’s Field area.

The level of non-compliance across the closure zone is high and disappointing. Early next week, we shall be introducing a number of additional road markings and signs to further advise motorists that they should not be passing the point No Entry signs nor entering the Loughborough Road Pedestrians Zone. You may also see the CCTV car deployed around the area to record motorists who continue to pass the signs. Councillor Jennifer Brathwaite will be speaking with the Police to seek their assistance in educating motorists about the new measures.

Next week, we also plan to introduce barriers to reduce the width of the carriageways and send a further visual signal that there are restrictions in place. In the longer term we would like to replace these with planters and it would be good to know if there is the capacity with local groups to make/maintain the planters. There are funds available for this type of thing and the attachment gives more details of how local groups can apply for grants of up to £1000.

It is planned to close Loughborough Road Pedestrian Zone to all traffic including buses on the weekend of 26/27 September, so please think about getting involved in this event and maybe apply for some funds.

This is start of an ambitious experiment, so please bear with us.
Best wishes

Sorry, but Mr Wright seems to be demented.

He has introduced a scheme which is not working. Now he wants to also ban buses on 26/27 September. Why?
Surely he would get off to a good start by making his original scheme work properly. What is the idea of introducing a bus ban for?

The one thing George Wright could do for the area he is totally uninterested in apparently - giving us a London Overground station at East Brixton.

Meanwhile please don't wreck our bus service George!

 

[Tricky Skills]

This was the scene early on Saturday evening:

 

[Greebo]

<snip> The one thing George Wright could do for the area he is totally uninterested in apparently - giving us a London Overground station at East Brixton.

Meanwhile please don't wreck our bus service George!

Word, a lot of people in the area are very reliant on the local buses, even to link Loughborough Junction up with Brixton. It might seem a perfectly walkable distance, but it's not if elderly, disabled, with at least one small child, and/or carrying shopping.

 

[CH1]

Word, a lot of people in the area are very reliant on the local buses, even to link Loughborogh Junction up with Brixton. It might seem a perfectly walkable distance, but it's not if elderly, disabled, with at least one small child, and/or carrying shopping.

If you live somewhere round Fiveways the P5 is the ONLY bus service - so what happens if they block both Loughborough Road and Barrington Road on 26th/27th September then? Will the P5 be diverted via Camberwell Green and Coldharbour Lane? I think we should be told about this.

 

[bimble]

So this is the view from my window as of this morning when these appeared.
£28,000 spent on this "experiement " so far.
Me personally I'm baffled by the logic of it.
People have been stopping, looking confused for a bit and then about 8 out of 10 driving over them.

 

[CH1]

So this is the view from my window as of this morning when these appeared.
£28,000 spent on this "experiement " so far.
Me personally I'm baffled by the logic of it.
People have been stopping, looking confused for a bit and then about 8 out of 10 driving over them.
View attachment 76367

Is that the road to the bridge leading to Elam Place?
In which case do we know if the sole access route designated for breakers and car repairers is now via Minet Road past the Loughborough Primary School?
Sounds like a big improvement to me - NOT.

 

[teuchter]

Is that the road to the bridge leading to Elam Place?
In which case do we know if the sole access route designated for breakers and car repairers is now via Minet Road past the Loughborough Primary School?
Sounds like a big improvement to me - NOT.

You could always look at the map already posted....



looks to me like the junction of Flaxman Rd / Gorden grove. I think the no entry signs say "access only" - because the actual closure is the other side of the bridge and the other side of Wickwood street which leads to the breakers. So the access to those breakers would be from this side not via Minet Rd.

In fact you will notice the dashed green line goes past the school, and I think it indicates one of the safe/quiet walking routes, presumably facilitated in part by the closure point concerned.

 

[CH1]

looks to me like the junction of Flaxman Rd / Gorden grove. I think the no entry signs say "access only"

I walked that way round to get my bus to Camberwell just now.
bimble's photo captures the situation. Pedestrian that I am, and coming under the bridge from the westward side, I was assailed by the huge white signs pained on the road.

Seems pretty clear that the council think it is no entry into Flaxman Road from Gordon Grove, from Flaxman Road into Gordon Grove and also from Flaxman Road south into Flaxman Road north.

Not too sure what any motor vehicles do about it, since the only ones I could see were parked up.

I was a bit more surprised to see at the Loughborough Road itself - apart from the fact that traffic was ignoring all the No Entries - it seems to me that there was no way into or out of Ridway Road - where a lot of businesses were actually open this afternoon.

Are customers and business owners supposed to go via the semi-derelict Belinda Road, containing the waste transfer station, Clarksons Brewery and some low activity breakers?

Actually I though the Police had gated that off out of hours due to alleged drug dealing etc.

 

[bimble]

Yep, photo shows the junction of Flaxman & Gordon Grove.
I am as baffled by it as all the drivers seem to be.
What they do is stop for a moment, confusedly, then carry on driving.
I haven't a clue how the many car repair businesses in the arches along Gordon Grove are supposed to operate, but maybe that's ok because NR is coming to turn it all into an al fresco cupcake emporium.

 

[Beasley]

I think the map above was published during the consultation. The location of this closure point and several others were subsequently changed and an updated map was published by Councillor Brathwaite in August -- see below for the Gordon Grove closure.
You can download the full map from the Lambeth website from this link: www.lambeth.gov.uk/lj and go to the bottom of the page.

 

[Beasley]

 

[teuchter]

I think the map above was published during the consultation. The location of this closure point and several others were subsequently changed and an updated map was published by Councillor Brathwaite in August -- see below for the Gordon Grove closure.
You can download the full map from the Lambeth website from this link: www.lambeth.gov.uk/lj and go to the bottom of the page.

Ah. Thanks.

 

[Beasley]

it seems to me that there was no way into or out of Ridgeway Road - where a lot of businesses were actually open this afternoon.

There is a way into Ridgeway Road (and Rathgar Road) but only from the south -- not from the north.

 

[teuchter]

The map doesn't explain why there's a "no entry" painted across Flaxman rd itself in bimble's photo above. Maybe they just had a bit of paint left over?

 

[bimble]

It's always been one way, that bit of Flaxman.
Yes, I think they had a bit of extra paint so we got three for the price of 2 maybe.
I know it's not the most important thing in the world but the view from my window is headache inducing now with all that giant shouty writing. Was really pretty before in its way.

In case anyone wishes to object to the changes being made permanent, it has to be done in writing (no email address is given) with reasons to the following recipient:

Barbara Poulter,
Transportation Group,
Lambeth Council,
5th Floor,
Blue Star House,
234-244 Stockwell Road,
London SW9 9SP.

 

[Gramsci]

There is a way into Ridgeway Road (and Rathgar Road) but only from the south -- not from the north.

View attachment 76374

You are correct. I remember that access to Ridgeway road was allowed.

However I can understand why CH1 thought that it was blocked.

As the writing on the road put in today gives appearance that that the whole of Loughborough road is no entry. When in fact this starts just after the railway bridge.

All very confusing for drivers unless they study the maps.

And Im saying this as cyclist.

 

[Gramsci]

I know it's not the most important thing in the world but the view from my window is headache inducing now with all that giant shouty writing. Was really pretty before in its way.

Yes I agree it is eyesore to have to look out on every day.

What happened to getting rid of street clutter? Instead now having orders written on the road in big letters instead.

I need to take a cycle around to see how it works and at this time I am finding it hard to understand the rational behind some of these closures. Or how they work. As the new shouty writing is confusing.

 

[Gramsci]

I

In case anyone wishes to object to the changes being made permanent, it has to be done in writing (no email address is given) with reasons to the following recipient:

Barbara Poulter,
Transportation Group,
Lambeth Council,
5th Floor,
Blue Star House,
234-244 Stockwell Road,
London SW9 9SP.

Are you sure about this?

The relevant Council webpage is here

The experimental road closures - affecting Loughborough Road, Barrington Road, Calais Street, Padfield Road, Lilford Road and Gordon Grove – will come into effect on August 29th for six months. Please see the map below, along with the FAQs and council report for further details.

Officers want to hear your views on the road closures while they are in effect. Alongside face-to-face consultation within the local community, you can e-mail your thoughts to Barbara Poulter at the council at:

bpoulter@lambeth.gov.uk

And this:

What is an experimental Traffic Management Order?
An experimental Traffic Management Order (TMO) can be used by a local authority to assess the impact of any changes made to the way a highway operates – in this case the closure of Loughborough Road and surrounding roads. A statutory consultation will begin at the same time as the experimental TMO and must continue for a minimum of six months. This gives the new highway arrangement time to settle down and also sufficient time for people to form their own opinion on the changes. After the six month statutory consultation, the council will assess all the representations it has received and take a decision on the way forward. The Council can also discontinue the experimental measures at any time.

So I read this as saying all comments emailed and written on paper will be taken into consideration.

It does say that people can make written representations. But I read this as an alternative to email as not everyone has access to email or likes using it. So emails should count imo.

Council do ask people to wait three weeks into the scheme before commenting on it. To give it chance to bed in so to speak.

I do think it would be good if posters here sent comments in.