Loughborough Junction chitter-chatter
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
editor
hiraethified
Here's the piece: Hero of Switzerland pub in Loughborough Junction to be ‘enhanced’ with a 12 story block built on top
If this thing does go ahead it certainly won't be affordable to most local families, and if the pub survives I doubt it will bear any relation to a community boozer.
If this thing does go ahead it certainly won't be affordable to most local families, and if the pub survives I doubt it will bear any relation to a community boozer.
The Fornicator
Active Member
I assumed they owned the freehold - ask the landlord. Portland are running the consultation.
snowy_again
Slush
Are they this: UDN PROPERTIES LTD - Filing history (free information from Companies House)
Edit, yes they are - Hero of S mentioned in this:
https://document-api-images-prod.s3...3049a0fc81e9254f5b805a37cca72be8c61060532005b
The Fornicator
Active Member
The do seem to own the pub - using the Hero as security, they appear to have got a loan in 2016.
snowy_again
Slush
And from a quick google, one of the UDN directors is a shonky care home provider:
‘I blame the staff’ - owner after care home enters special measures
Damning CQC: https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/new_reports/INS2-3862890906.pdf
But standard ones for their other residential homes: https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/new_reports/INS2-3217476888.pdf
(this is just based on a name match - not a confirmation that he's the same person, but a Co House search on the care home name should identify any link)
‘I blame the staff’ - owner after care home enters special measures
Damning CQC: https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/new_reports/INS2-3862890906.pdf
But standard ones for their other residential homes: https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/new_reports/INS2-3217476888.pdf
(this is just based on a name match - not a confirmation that he's the same person, but a Co House search on the care home name should identify any link)
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
I'm dubious about a new pub being built, once the current one has been demolished anything could happen...the promised pub could just be a sweetener to get people on side.
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CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
There's also charges connected to them and "Prime Central London Limited" - mentioning interest rates of 25%. Sounds as intriguing as dodgy Care Homes.
As you say just an apparent matching name is no proof. And as usual to get the actual ownership details of the pub, and any option, mortgages etc is going to cost £3 on the Land Registry website (the information is not available on the new free service - I've checked).
In any case remember two things:
1. you don't have to own a site to apply for planning permission to develop it
2. with May Developments (if you go back over that Canterbury Arms thread) the developer took an option to buy the pub from the owners - Conway Taverns. Having pinned Conway down to a price, they got their planning permission, then exercised their option.
It's possible that more can be gleaned from the Land Registry re the Hero of Switzerland. It would seem likely that some type of option arrangement may have happened. Otherwise, if the developer got permission, the pub would be quids in without doing the work (I mean the planning/architecture paperwork, which presumably carries a cost).
snowy_again
Slush
The Co House link says it's the same Director for UDN as the care homes
editor
hiraethified
We certainly haven't seen any sign of a pub returning to the site of the Canterbury Arms despite the developers assuring everyone there was going to be one.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Well. Thats interesting you say that. Having heard Squire ( the department store) this architect sounded the same.
I kind of thought general consensus on Brixton forum was that one should not be criticising architects as they are just hired hands.
Not criticising you. Just surprised no one else has said anything.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Property developers are property developers. That is how Capitalism works. They aren't saints. Some ventures don't work out.
What they ( agents for developer/ architect) were putting forward as an argument was that this development would keep the pub, provide extra housing in London with the requisite planning requirements for affordable, be an iconic building in centre of LJ and kick start improvement of public realm nearby.
They didn't say they would put money into improving nearby public realm ( space outside the shops ) but putting in this block with the newly designed pub would start it off.
Bit like Squires taking over run down building in Ferndale road and improving area.
The architect / developer feel there proposed development will act as help to improve this area. Whilst respecting its culture and history.
Private investment bringing in tangible benefits.
Maybe people are being to cynical here. This development is first step towards the great improvements that we all have seen in Brixton.
This architect/ developer should be seen as risk taking entrepreneurs of progress. Pioneers coming to neglected area.
Capitalism is great.
What they ( agents for developer/ architect) were putting forward as an argument was that this development would keep the pub, provide extra housing in London with the requisite planning requirements for affordable, be an iconic building in centre of LJ and kick start improvement of public realm nearby.
They didn't say they would put money into improving nearby public realm ( space outside the shops ) but putting in this block with the newly designed pub would start it off.
Bit like Squires taking over run down building in Ferndale road and improving area.
The architect / developer feel there proposed development will act as help to improve this area. Whilst respecting its culture and history.
Private investment bringing in tangible benefits.
Maybe people are being to cynical here. This development is first step towards the great improvements that we all have seen in Brixton.
This architect/ developer should be seen as risk taking entrepreneurs of progress. Pioneers coming to neglected area.
Capitalism is great.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Interesting comment I heard at the consultation event for Hero of Switzerland from one of the staff there was that there is possibility that LEMB ( Loughborough Estate Management Board) might manage the building.
I really don't know how that is going to work.
And I am not keen on mixing Council housing with private. Slippery slope to semi privatisation of housing.
I really don't know how that is going to work.
And I am not keen on mixing Council housing with private. Slippery slope to semi privatisation of housing.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
I asked one of the guys at the consultation if that was the case and he said the present landlord wanted to be involved but there is no guarantee he would be.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Which means he may not come back. As I said what I heard was gossip. Which LJ is rife with. Why I'm glad I'm not in LEMB area and why I don't join LJAG.
Chatted with a couple of people on estate at the consultation event. Still going on about LJAG and road closures. The orchard is recent issue.
I try and keep out if it and remain neutral. So far its worked.
I like some people on estate and some in LJAG. Bit of a balancing act.
madolesance
Well-Known Member
On a similar note, I have heard of a long time back street pub in Vauxhall being made an offer they had difficulty refusing. This is a public house that has been there for many years and has served the community well. But the family owners would now like the opportunity to 'cash in' and retire. Cann't really blame them for wanting to look after the future of their futures.
The Fornicator
Active Member
It's really very early on the development imo, and change is moving fast at times - even on the same day as the Wed consultation T.May at Conference removed the cap on LAs funding (not directly related but relevant). Prior by a few weeks, Sadiq had stated his position on a new balance between affordable and private sale. If Corbyn does get in, almost anything can happen.
Couple of things; there is now a local LBL requirement than no more pubs close for residential redevelopment so there will be a pub on the ground floor.
Way to soon for councillors to comment, developers just beginning to gather feedback.
Also, the current proposal is 60% straight up sale, "up to" 40% affordable (of which 70% would be shared ownership and 30% social rent). The breakdown, in an areas like LJ and as desperate as LJ for more social housing would be - and this is rough numbers:
4 units: social rent
10 units: shared ownership
22: market sale
It's obv. private land, a private development, the legal framework is clear, etc, etc. Ugly world.
Couple of things; there is now a local LBL requirement than no more pubs close for residential redevelopment so there will be a pub on the ground floor.
Way to soon for councillors to comment, developers just beginning to gather feedback.
Also, the current proposal is 60% straight up sale, "up to" 40% affordable (of which 70% would be shared ownership and 30% social rent). The breakdown, in an areas like LJ and as desperate as LJ for more social housing would be - and this is rough numbers:
4 units: social rent
10 units: shared ownership
22: market sale
It's obv. private land, a private development, the legal framework is clear, etc, etc. Ugly world.
editor
hiraethified
It'll probably be some sort of half-hearted swishy upmarket affair catering to incomers rather than the existing community. And it'll probably change into something else after.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I went to the exhibition around lunchtime and I noticed Helen Hayes had signed in. At least she's keeping tabs on what's going on.
Further to my comments about about loss of light the person I was speaking to pointed out that the new block would be facing a blank wall on Leicester House.
I notice that one of the possible tempters to tick on the consultation form is "outdoor gym". A good idea if actuated.
What I find odd is how the plot came to be private. Lambeth were notorious land hoarders until the late 1990s, and presumably the pub must have been built as part of the estate by the LCC in the 1950s, devolving to Lambeth with the demise if the GLC? Utopia London
The Fornicator
Active Member
I asked about the adjoining row of shops (flats above), was told different owners hence difficult to have a bigger development.
That whole parade is in a right state (have a look around the back). A lot of wasted space in front of those shops as well. Big plot all in.
That whole parade is in a right state (have a look around the back). A lot of wasted space in front of those shops as well. Big plot all in.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
The flats above the shops were council flats in the 1980s. Presumably the EMB people know if that's still the case.
It could be said that actually the provision of these estate shops + reprovision of the pub in the late 1950s contributed to the collapse of Loughborough Junction as a shopping centre (since it reduced the already depleted trade in LJ).
Perhaps an influx of shared-ownership flat dwellers might support a new coffee shop, but somehow I doubt it. They wouldn't have time to stop en route to the Lougborough Junction station lottery (as to whether to be able to board a train) on the way work.
editor
hiraethified
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I didn't photograph all the exhibition. I think one part said the pub was built separately from the estate. So always privately owned. Chatting to one long time resident who said when he was first here in 1970s it was very busy.
The shops/ low rise flats next door are Council owned.
The question three on consultation form about the space next to proposed block says "the application could be a catalyst for change and your feedback will help guide what comes forward in the future". Tick a box for outdoor gym, pop up cinema, street market, landscape open space on the feedback form.
I get impression the estate residents don't want the area gentrified. One told me that this redevelopment of HofS is LJAG thing. ( Which it isn't. But opinion of LJAG is so low that this is the kind of thing I hear.)
There is a rather interesting well designed outdoor gym in Elam Open space. Instead of a group of machines exercise equipment built around the space.
If LEMB want an outdoor gym they should just on with it and build one. They have the land to do it.
The Fornicator
Active Member
An outdoor gym on a road that sees 90-100,000 traffic movements a week is an interesting concept.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I'm going to the Chest Clinic at King's on Thursday.
Will try to remember to ask!
editor
hiraethified
A little photo feature capturing scenes I don't expect will be around for long
In photos: The colours of Ridgway Road railway arches, Loughborough Junction
In photos: The colours of Ridgway Road railway arches, Loughborough Junction
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