Loughborough Junction chitter-chatter

[CH1]

The trouble with reopening Camberwell is that the trains are already arse-to-crotch full at LJ. To get more trains on that line, they'd have to terminate lots of them at Blackfriars. Residents on the line have strongly campaigned to retain fewer through services rather than more frequent terminators, so here we are.

Are you sure about that capacity issue? I was chatting to a station person at Blackfriars only yesterday and they said that London Bridge is reopened, so nearly all the Brighton "services" will go via London Bridge and Norwood Junction now.

 

[Crispy]

Are you sure about that capacity issue? I was chatting to a station person at Blackfriars only yesterday and they that London Bridge is reopened, so nearly all the Brighton "services" will go via London Bridge and Norwood Junction now.

It's the junction at Blackfriars that limits capacity. Anything coming out of the tunnel Southbound to Elephant has to cross over the London Bridge tracks "on the flat". Anything coming North from LB has to wait at red while it does so. This clash is what limits the number of through services that can run via Elephant.

 

[nemoanonemo]

As a Loughborough Junction local I am selfishly glad that the through service has been maintained, particularly now that Farringdon will be such an important hub when crossrail opens. I am in no way a railway expert, but I don't understand why there is an all or nothing attitude to terminating at Blackfriars. If there is capacity on the line between Loughborough Junction/Denmark Hill up to Blackfriars, why can't the existing through service be maintained but additional Blackfriars terminating traffic be added to increase capacity to alleviate rush hour overcrowding and support a new station?

 

[grosun]

The trouble with reopening Camberwell is that the trains are already arse-to-crotch full at LJ. To get more trains on that line, they'd have to terminate lots of them at Blackfriars. Residents on the line have strongly campaigned to retain fewer through services rather than more frequent terminators, so here we are.

What I never understood was why they didn't retain the existing through trains & add some which terminated at Blackfriars.

As far as I recall, at the time the plan was to terminate all trains at BF, which was (rightly imo) resisted, as then onward travel would have been subject to the London Bridge line working well.

Given how packed Thameslink trains are on that line, & the amount of new blocks of flats going up, it now seems sensible to consider adding some Blackfriars-terminating trains, but I've no idea whether that idea is even on the radar.

 

[Crispy]

Good questions. Um. teuchter?

 

[teuchter]

There *are* some that terminate at Blackfriars, in between the regular 15-minute interval through trains, during each rush hour. Some that come via denmark hill do the same I think.

 

[Crispy]

Yes, in fact I got a DH-bound train from the bay platforms at Blackfriars today. Never a loop train though. Are they new?

 

[teuchter]

Yes, in fact I got a DH-bound train from the bay platforms at Blackfriars today. Never a loop train though. Are they new?

Actually I'm not sure if they were in the old timetable. They aren't true 'loop' trains though, they come from Beckenham and join the route at Herne Hill.

What scope there is for increasing the frequency of trains around the whole loop I'm not sure... I believe there is 'spare' capacity on the lines between Blackfriars and LJ, but once you start going around the loop it gets rather complicated with all the junctions and other services that the timetable has to be interlaced with.

 

[Gramsci]

I took some photos of the memorial to the three tragically killed on the railway line.

 

[Gramsci]

A few more.

 

[davidaheath]

What's the deal with the permanent police presence?

 

[teuchter]

What's the deal with the permanent police presence?

To try and stop the entire station getting covered in tags I guess.

 

[Gramsci]

What's the deal with the permanent police presence?

Its a pathetic attempt to be seen to do something. I don't know why. No one as far as I know us blaming rail company or Network rail. I'm not. It's tragic accident imo.

Earlier there was police van and the pimped up SUV of the security firm the rail company use.

Network Rail – Land Sheriffs Ltd

I saw them sitting in there pimped up SUV for several days. I wondered what they were. It's just a security company whose brand image is testosterone fueled machismo. Dropping in word "sheriff" as though they are out of some western.

 

[Gramsci]

This tribute to Trip , one of the graffiti artists tragically killed, on road behind Tescos.

 

[Gramsci]

I actually find it moving that so many came to pay tribute to Trip and his fellow taggers. A decent "underground" community imo who care about each other.

I like street art. Never been a fan of tagging. Changed my mind somewhat now.

 

[teuchter]

This tribute to Trip , one of the graffiti artists tragically killed, on road behind Tescos.View attachment 139014 View attachment 139015

It's all three names

 

[teuchter]

I'm not quite sure what to think of it because the fact is it's really dangerous to be on railway lines and glamourising the whole thing just means it'll be sooner that the next people get killed, and people who aren't supposed to be there being on the tracks has negative effects for railway staff just trying to do their jobs; not just the drivers unfortunate enough to hit someone but all the near misses as well, and from what I read elsewhere it's not unknown for them to find themselves in confrontations too. That doesn't mean it's not a tragedy or that they deserved what happened or anything like that, but just because there's a 'decent community' who care about each other doesn't mean that what they choose to do is fine and without consequence for others. And, on a lower level of 'consequence', cleaning graffiti off trains wastes a load of time and resource and costs a lot of money.

 

[Gramsci]

I'm not quite sure what to think of it because the fact is it's really dangerous to be on railway lines and glamourising the whole thing just means it'll be sooner that the next people get killed, and people who aren't supposed to be there being on the tracks has negative effects for railway staff just trying to do their jobs; not just the drivers unfortunate enough to hit someone but all the near misses as well, and from what I read elsewhere it's not unknown for them to find themselves in confrontations too. That doesn't mean it's not a tragedy or that they deserved what happened or anything like that, but just because there's a 'decent community' who care about each other doesn't mean that what they choose to do is fine and without consequence for others. And, on a lower level of 'consequence', cleaning graffiti off trains wastes a load of time and resource and costs a lot of money.

Are you saying Im "glamourising" it? That posting up these photos is encouraging others to be on the railway lines?

 

[Gramsci]

. And, on a lower level of 'consequence', cleaning graffiti off trains wastes a load of time and resource and costs a lot of money.

I'm up in Kings Cross every now and then and see the goods trains with graffiti. They look better for it imo.

 

[teuchter]

Are you saying Im "glamourising" it? That posting up these photos is encouraging others to be on the railway lines?

To some extent, posting the photos glamourises it. At the same time, three people have lost their lives and people should be allowed to mark that and remember them.

That's why it's difficult to know what to think about the whole thing.

 

[teuchter]

I'm up in Kings Cross every now and then and see the goods trains with graffiti. They look better for it imo.

Here's a brand new passenger train that was supposed to be taking people to work the next morning - I wonder if they'd consider it an improvement not being able to see out of the window. I think it takes a team of several people a day or two to clean it all up and get the train back into service.



On goods trains it has less of an impact although it can still cover up safety and other markings that are there for a reason. Plus it inevitably means people being in goods yards where trains can move at any moment and people can end up being badly injured or worse.

I'd prefer they targeted the expensive cars parked up around Mayfair, wouldn't you?

 

[Gramsci]

I wonder what to think of it.

Im not keen on tagging. But these tragic deaths have put in public view this subculture.

Actually the one behind Tesco's us more like street art to me. I think there is crossover.

I think one of the things about tagging is the danger/ breaking the law side to it.

Street art isn't really like that. Street artists get into trouble with the law but just want to be left alone to put art in public spaces.

Take "chewing gum man" who I've met. A council tried to prosecute him for doing miniature street art on chewing gum. They failed. He's still doing it. Though I haven't seen him recently.

 

[Gramsci]

Here's a brand new passenger train that was supposed to be taking people to work the next morning - I wonder if they'd consider it an improvement not being able to see out of the window. I think it takes a team of several people a day or two to clean it all up and get the train back into service.

View attachment 139019

On goods trains it has less of an impact although it can still cover up safety and other markings that are there for a reason. Plus it inevitably means people being in goods yards where trains can move at any moment and people can end up being badly injured or worse.

I'd prefer they targeted the expensive cars parked up around Mayfair, wouldn't you?

I must say my first reaction is that Im rather impressed.

 

[Gramsci]

Here's a brand new passenger train that was supposed to be taking people to work the next morning - I wonder if they'd consider it an improvement not being able to see out of the window. I think it takes a team of several people a day or two to clean it all up and get the train back into service.

View attachment 139019

On goods trains it has less of an impact although it can still cover up safety and other markings that are there for a reason. Plus it inevitably means people being in goods yards where trains can move at any moment and people can end up being badly injured or worse.

I'd prefer they targeted the expensive cars parked up around Mayfair, wouldn't you?

Btw where is this photo from?

I see a lot of trains. I don't see that much graffiti normally.

 

[Gramsci]

Also from what I can see Trip and co were not tagging trains.

 

[Gramsci]

When I lived in the Mansions I used to occasionally hear the graffiti artists at night. They weren't targeting trains so much as walls.

 

[teuchter]

Btw where is this photo from?

It's from a recent incident at west worthing.

Police investigate graffiti damage to £17m train in Worthing

I see a lot of trains. I don't see that much graffiti normally.

That's because they are generally taken out of service immediately it's discovered. Because otherwise the taggers get what they want - their work paraded around the country.

 

[ricbake]

Also from what I can see Trip and co were not tagging trains.

I think I saw in one of the papers one of kbags tags across a passenger trains windows...

 

[Gramsci]

It's all three names

Lover Trip and Kbag. Yes ur right. Didn't see that.

Interesting article here.

Vandalism or art? Graffiti artists' deaths reignite debate

The one behind Tesco's is imo very good piece of work.

 

[teuchter]

I think I saw in one of the papers one of kbags tags across a passenger trains windows...

So did I but it wasn't a UK train, and I'm not sure if it was by him or in memorium.