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Lost my voice - interview for dream job tomorrow - help

Puddy_Tat said:
is it the sort of 'support service' that may get outsourced? can combine the worst aspects of both public and private sectors...
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No, very much the opposite.

They outsourced everything to Accenture in a little failed project you might have heard of called the National Program for IT (£24bn loss, IIRC) :facepalm:

And now they're bringing everything back in-house. They've saved a significant amount of money already, and are now expanding operations.
 
The NHS job is probably the better bet - at least in my view. Security, prospects, reliability of income and pension payments*. Look the future and what you want to do - but as you get older the security aspect becomes more important.


* in the distant future for wor young 'un fez - the lucky bastard.
 
Fez909 said:
No, very much the opposite.

They outsourced everything to Accenture in a little failed project you might have heard of called the National Program for IT (£24bn loss, IIRC) :facepalm:

And now they're bringing everything back in-house. They've saved a significant amount of money already, and are now expanding operations.
Click to expand...

:eek:

had managed to miss that story

that's quite unusual - tory policy with outsourcing balls-ups tends to be to give the shit companies more money to sort it out / new contracts to do other stuff because taking contracts away from them would make it look like they had made a bad decision in the first place...

while i suppose i'd better not go in to detail, but i have a friend who must be in to the fourth year of what should have been a 6 month project doing something in the outsourced IT for public sector.

i don't know the NHS well enough to offer much of an informed opinion - the public sector in general is not wholly like the stereotypes peddled by the tory tabloids, and in much of it, there's an ever growing heap of targets and 'performance' measures (sometimes stuff that's simple to count rather than anything that actually measures performance), and regular pressure to do more each year with a smaller budget and in many cases a smaller number of people.

In theory at least, the public sector fills vacancies on application / interview on an equal opportunities basis, rather than selecting people on whatever basis the manager feels like that week. Some parts can have a 'fast track' scheme for graduates, which can in practice mean everyone else is on the 'slow track' if not in a siding.

I am led to believe that it's easier to get a job within the NHS if you're already in (knowledge of their systems / procedures and so on) so this particular role needn't be a dead end (obviously you know more about this particular area of work than i do) - public sector in general tends to have a policy of advertising all jobs externally, although at a time when redundancies are in the air, they will often give a chance for 'at risk of redundancy' staff first.

Another angle is which job would be best for you if / when you move on next? which will give you experience that's going to be good in the future if you want to / have to move on? I'd have thought that some NHS IT stuff is kinda specialised and may not be used much elsewhere?

Some public sector organisations (again, I don't know the NHS well enough to comment) keep obsolete software on for years because they can't afford to update every bit of bespoke software they have got, and this essential program will only work with an ancient version of internet explorer...

dunno really.

hope you're in a position where you do have a choice to make soon.
 
Puddy_Tat said:
Another angle is which job would be best for you if / when you move on next? which will give you experience that's going to be good in the future if you want to / have to move on? I'd have thought that some NHS IT stuff is kinda specialised and may not be used much elsewhere?

Some public sector organisations (again, I don't know the NHS well enough to comment) keep obsolete software on for years because they can't afford to update every bit of bespoke software they have got, and this essential program will only work with an ancient version of internet explorer...
Click to expand...
There is that... would you lose your edge skills-wise? Also, when do you ever meet unemployed developers? Certainly you don't in London.
 
Puddy_Tat said:
:eek:

had managed to miss that story

that's quite unusual - tory policy with outsourcing balls-ups tends to be to give the shit companies more money to sort it out / new contracts to do other stuff because taking contracts away from them would make it look like they had made a bad decision in the first place...

while i suppose i'd better not go in to detail, but i have a friend who must be in to the fourth year of what should have been a 6 month project doing something in the outsourced IT for public sector.

i don't know the NHS well enough to offer much of an informed opinion - the public sector in general is not wholly like the stereotypes peddled by the tory tabloids, and in much of it, there's an ever growing heap of targets and 'performance' measures (sometimes stuff that's simple to count rather than anything that actually measures performance), and regular pressure to do more each year with a smaller budget and in many cases a smaller number of people.

In theory at least, the public sector fills vacancies on application / interview on an equal opportunities basis, rather than selecting people on whatever basis the manager feels like that week. Some parts can have a 'fast track' scheme for graduates, which can in practice mean everyone else is on the 'slow track' if not in a siding.

I am led to believe that it's easier to get a job within the NHS if you're already in (knowledge of their systems / procedures and so on) so this particular role needn't be a dead end (obviously you know more about this particular area of work than i do) - public sector in general tends to have a policy of advertising all jobs externally, although at a time when redundancies are in the air, they will often give a chance for 'at risk of redundancy' staff first.

Another angle is which job would be best for you if / when you move on next? which will give you experience that's going to be good in the future if you want to / have to move on? I'd have thought that some NHS IT stuff is kinda specialised and may not be used much elsewhere?

Some public sector organisations (again, I don't know the NHS well enough to comment) keep obsolete software on for years because they can't afford to update every bit of bespoke software they have got, and this essential program will only work with an ancient version of internet explorer...

dunno really.

hope you're in a position where you do have a choice to make soon.
Click to expand...

Yep, it was an absolute disaster. Check out this from wiki:
Originally expected to cost £2.3 billion (bn) over three years, in June 2006 the total cost was estimated by the National Audit Office to be £12.4bn over 10 years, and the NAO also noted that "...it was not demonstrated that the financial value of the benefits exceeds the cost of the Programme". Similarly, the British Computer Society (2006) concluded that "...the central costs incurred by NHS are such that, so far, the value for money from services deployed is poor". Officials involved in the programme have been quoted in the media estimating the final cost to be as high as £20bn, indicating a cost overrun of 440% to 770%.

In April 2007, the Public Accounts Committee of the House of Commons issued a damning 175-page report on the programme. The Committee chairman, Edward Leigh, claimed "This is the biggest IT project in the world and it is turning into the biggest disaster." The report concluded that, despite a probable expenditure of 20 billion pounds "at the present rate of progress it is unlikely that significant clinical benefits will be delivered by the end of the contract period."

In September 2013, the Public Accounts Committee said that although the National Programme for IT had been effectively disbanded in 2011, some large regional contracts and other costs remained outstanding and were still costing the public dearly. It described the former National Programme for IT as one of the "worst and most expensive contracting fiascos" ever.

The costs of the venture should have been lessened by the contracts signed by the IT providers making them liable for huge sums of money if they withdrew from the project; however, when Accenture withdrew in September 2006, then Director-General for NPfIT Richard Granger charged them not £1bn, as the contract permitted, but just £63m. Granger's first job was with Andersen Consulting, which later became Accenture.
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"epic fail" doesn't do it justice.

So the work now is all in-house, using modern, open-source tools, and industry best practices. If I worked there for a few years, I could probably pick and choose my next role (assuming I did well).

There's a really good article on the department here and really good work they're doing: NHS tears out its Oracle Spine in favour of open source

As I said, it's a great job.

This other one will not compare in terms of the things I'd be doing day to day. Where it turns my head is the freedom aspect of it. It's so laid back where I work now (the new role would be basically what I'm doing now, with all of the bullshit stripped out, more of the good stuff, and a 25% pay rise along with potential to earn a lot more in the future).

Of course, all this might be academic - they might not offer it to me :facepalm:
 
re the two jobs...gamble!!!
hqdefault.jpg


When the startup job all goes tits up....
bullseye-caravan.jpg
Bullseye_jimsulking.jpg
 
ska invita said:
did you hear back?
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Nope. I would ordinarily think that means they don't want me, but given the time delay from application/pre-interview round until next contact, I still think there's a chance.

The application period ended on something like the 8th of January. Then they sent me an email with a programming task to carry out, submitted by 16th January. Then no contact until the week before last when they said I'd been shortlisted and am I still interested.

The NHS are slooooooow.
 
Quite encouraging that they're bringing it in-house and using good open source principles. This is the best way to get good staff. I might apply if they're hiring. Well, as long as they don't send me programming quizzes, that can fuck off.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
Quite encouraging that they're bringing it in-house and using good open source principles. This is the best way to get good staff. I might apply if they're hiring. Well, as long as they don't send me programming quizzes, that can fuck off.
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I would've thought the move to Leeds would be more of a problem? AFAIK, it's all based here now.
 
Fez909 said:
Why, btw? I'm still leaning that way but most are suggesting the other way.
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mr b took redundancy from his safe uni job a couple of years back and started contracting. the work is more interesting and varied, better paid, and when bureaucracy and office politics kick in he can high-tail it out of there. for the first time in our lives we have a nest-egg building up, and he's developing an increasingly impressive skills list. he's very good at what he does and that's rewarded and nurtured more than it was in the job he got stuck in (no path for progression as a tech bod, only as a manager).
 
Sue said:
Very nice position to be in :thumbs:.
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It is and it isn't! I've never been in this situation before so it's nice to be 'wanted' and not have uncertainty about where my next wage is coming from. But it would have made things a lot easier if I'd been turned down for this job!

Another complication is there's a third offer on the table now, from the company that I would have been TUPE'd to if I didn't have these two offers. It's not been discussed properly yet, but the guy from the transfer organization has said he doesn't want me to leave and wants to chat about it.

It's very unlikely I'll take this third offer, but who knows until you've had the discussion?
 
RubyToogood said:
Well, these various employers could help you make up your mind. What could you ask them that would make it clearer?
Click to expand...
NHS, nothing. I know everything I need to know about them.

The one I'm seriously considering, I have a lot of questions, and he's coming to meet me sometime this week (Wed I think) - so will be asking then

The other one, everything! "What is the job you're offering?" will be the first one :D
 
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