London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

[ViolentPanda]

Good plan. Ignore the plain issues which need to be challenged / discussed / addressed and wander off on some conspiraloon flight of fancy ...

Because agents provocateurs have never been used by either the police or the intelligence services, and that long list of former police officers and intelligence operatives who've said otherwise, they're just bad apples and plain fibbers, aren't they?

 

[detective-boy]

The police barred their way for no good reason. The police could have just stayed at home and let people protest as is their right but they keep coming out and battering people and imprisoning them in kettles.

Naive bollocks.

You are not really suggesting that if there had been no police presence at all no unlawful activity would have happened at all are you?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Absent for five days on this thread, only to resurface to throw insults at everyone. No surprise there then.

Quite. We'd all have been startled if he hadn't dished out his usual portion of cursing and eye-rolling.

 

[detective-boy]

Apart from the last time a student protest was left to it's own ends they ended up trashing the HQ of a democratic political party a number of entirely unconnected businesses whcih happened to be in the same building (or the neighbouring one) as the HQ of a democratic political party.

Corrected for you ...

 

[detective-boy]

There is, however, plenty of evidence that shows people using physical direct action, both as an offensive measure after police violence, and as a defensive measure during police violence.

No there isn't. There's lots of evidence of people using violence against the police ... which apologists like you state (but are never able to prove) was in response to "police violence". You're quick enough to gob off about other people making unsubstantiated claims, how about you do for once, eh?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The aim of the legislation is to allow protests to be banned if they cannot be facilitated without serious disorder.

So in effect somebody will decide, probably on the basis of intelligence (with all the implications that has, in terms of the honesty and accuracy of intelligence in the hands of politically-motivated people and organisations) whether or not a protest can go ahead?

I think we can all see how this one will pan out.

 

[detective-boy]

It wouldn't actually be very surprising if there were snooker/pool balls deployed. Every SU and a lot of school/college common rooms have a pool table, and they usually have red and yellow balls instead of proper pool balls. I don't really understand why people are making such a big deal out of this one point. If you're trying to prove that everyone there was intent on an entirely peaceful protest ... well, they weren't, and thank fuck for that, quite frankly.

Oh dear! You do realise that you're going to be drummed out of The Collective for this. EVERYONE knows that the protestors were entirely peaceful and that none brought any weapons, especially not snooker balls (which, for some reason, would obviously be v.v.bad ...)

 

[moon23]

Naive bollocks.

You are not really suggesting that if there had been no police presence at all no unlawful activity would have happened at all are you?

Yea because that worked well at Millbank where there wasn't much of a police presence.

 

[ymu]

Oh dear! You do realise that you're going to be drummed out of The Collective for this. EVERYONE knows that the protestors were entirely peaceful and that none brought any weapons, especially not snooker balls (which, for some reason, would obviously be v.v.bad ...)

You're such a fucking moron.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Rarely have I seen so much ignorance demonstrated in so few words.

So you don't proof-read your own posts, then?

If (as you erroneously claim) it is a "civil offence" how would it be used to "criminalise" them.

You do understand the difference between the criminal law and the civil law, don't you?

Yes, and if you'd read on a few posts, you'd have seen that I acknowledged my error, but you're too busy trying to score points, aren't you?

 

[detective-boy]

Because the reported use of snooker balls is a long standing ground-preparing move before attempting to stich someone up, quite important to realise that and to get it understood. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard this bollocks.

"Long-standing"?

You're fucking deluded mate. I have never heard of snooker balls being used in protests (as opposed to pub fights) before.

 

[detective-boy]

they have a monopoloy on LAWFUL violence though

No they don't. There are circumstances in which everyone can use force lawfully.

 

[detective-boy]

if i beat someone to death what sentence will i get?

if a policeman beats someone to death what sentence will they get? (if they get sentenced at all)

In the same circumstances, exactly the same.

Come on this is basic stuff ...

 

[ViolentPanda]

The police are not the fucking cavalry...

No, they're not, and I didn't claim they were. The point I was making, which obviously sailed over your head, was that it's a standard tactic used by mounted forces (what used to be known as cavalry once upon a time) to do exactly what I said it did.

Yes it is.

Let me get this straight, you're claiming that a flying wedge charge is a standard tactic against people pushing, and to reinforce lines?

Only to the extent of allowing a police line to take advantage of that chaos and move forward or re-locate (as plainly visible here).

Chaos is chaos. You don't cause "chaos only to the extent of...". You cause it, full-stop, and if you do, you should then take responsibility for the consequences.

 

[ViolentPanda]

More ignorance. ANYTHING (including shields and helmets) intended for use in unlawful violence (such as pushing through a lawful police cordon) would have an offensive, as well as their original defensive, purpose.

Says it all, but thanks for confirming it.

 

[Steel Icarus]

"Long-standing"?

You're fucking deluded mate. I have never heard of snooker balls being used in protests (as opposed to pub fights) before.

He didn't say they've been used in protests. He said they've long been reported to have been used in protests, in order to throw the full force of the law at those arrested or spotted as troublemakers.

 

[revlon]

And so are you. Breaking out of a containment would amount to assaulting a police officer in the execution of their duty (provided that the Court found the containment lawful), no matter how little force was used.

Congratulations on providing inaccurate legal advice to people which may result in their getting a criminal conviction ...

i can guarantee nobody has been or will ever be charged with the offence of assaulting a copper in the execution of his duty for breaking out of a kettle.

Keeping pushing through those police lines kids. Use shields, wear helmets, if its cold wear something to cover your and nose and mouth. Wear padding. All good sound legal advice.

i don't think you ever made it past your desk and out of the street did you. Not even in the 80s.

 

[detective-boy]

If snooker balls were thrown they would have been displayed on the TV by the police.

Why? They are no more or less dangerous than the many other things that were shown on live fucking TV.

You and the rest of The Collective may have invested them with some sort of mythic relevance ... but no-one else is fucking bothered one way or the other.

It. Makes. No. Difference.

 

[DotCommunist]

In the same circumstances, exactly the same.

Come on this is basic stuff ...

this simply doesn't run true to history. I remind you of the vast gulf in between what menezes killers claimed went on and the accounts of everyone else.

 

[DotCommunist]

i can guarantee nobody has been or will ever be charged with the offence of assaulting a copper in the execution of his duty for breaking out of a kettle.

Keeping pushing through those police lines kids. Use shields, wear helmets, if its cold wear something to cover your and nose and mouth. Wear padding. All good sound legal advice.

i don't think you ever made it past your desk and out of the street did you. Not even in the 80s.

a board member was nicked for just that. Nothing came of it, but they were nicked for it...

 

[nosos]

You are not really suggesting that if there had been no police presence at all no unlawful activity would have happened at all are you?

What do you think would have happened if the police hadn't been there?

 

[detective-boy]

... while another on telly yesterday mused ‘Is nearly killing a young student for a few broken windows and graffitti worth it?

Which cop was that?

 

[revlon]

More ignorance. ANYTHING (including shields and helmets) intended for use in unlawful violence (such as pushing through a lawful police cordon) would have an offensive, as well as their original defensive, purpose.

this is a tautology. Unlawful violenec is by its nature unlawful. Lawful violence is by its nature lawful.

Pushing through police lines is not unlawful violence. Although i'm happy to see any legal ruling for the offence of 'trying to go home'.

 

[revlon]

a board member was nicked for just that. Nothing came of it, but they were nicked for it...

i was nicked for it as well.

Had to be dropped.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

You have absolutely no idea whether snooker balls were thrown or not

Nor do you, you fuckin' arrogant inconsistent prick. You're a fuckin' joke.

 

[frogwoman]

No they don't. There are circumstances in which everyone can use force lawfully.

that's not the same as a monopoly

 

[ViolentPanda]

You have absolutely no idea whether snooker balls were thrown or not...

Oh, I have a fair idea. I've scrutinised a couple of hundred pictures and over a hundred clips (one of the benefits of pain-based insomnia), and I haven't, even using a 21" screen been able to discern a single snooker, billiard or pool ball. Plenty of baubles and some balloons, all of which broke on impact, though.

as (despite your plain delusion that you are fucking God Almighty) you are not omnipresent.

Hmm, I'm deluded and have a G-d complex, do I? What are your psychology and psychiatry qualifications, d-b? Are you a member of the Royal College of Psychiatrists? Of the British Psychological Society, perhaps?
Or are you just being abusive because you can't bear being gainsaid?

And yet you feel able to dismiss out of hand the accounts of people who were. (including a friend of mine who was hit on the helmet by one ... strangely enough he didn't then spend twenty minutes looking for it and securing it as "evidence"...

Not that your friend would have been talking bollocks, either, because nobody does that.
He wouldn't have been able to find it anyway. The gun/snooker ball/knife nearly always disappears.

to convince pricks like you (who, to be honest, wouldn't believe it even it you were struck hard around the head by one in a sock).

How fucking arrogant can you get?

Nowhere near as arrogant as you, apparently.

All that name-calling, and I'm still not going to report you on the same basis that you report other posters, because you're sheer comedy gold.

 

[detective-boy]

In high pressure situations involving unrest? Really?

Yes

Please link to all the examples of soldiers policing football, protests, large public event such as NYE and Notting Hill Carnival before gobbing off any more ...

 

[detective-boy]

An insight into how you're viewed.

It's actually an insight into your stupidity and prejudice.

But you're too stupid and prejudiced to realise that ...

 

[ViolentPanda]

No there isn't. There's lots of evidence of people using violence against the police ... which apologists like you state (but are never able to prove) was in response to "police violence". You're quick enough to gob off about other people making unsubstantiated claims, how about you do for once, eh?

What, you mean substantiate to the same degree you do?
Okay.
"I fucking say so, so there, cunts!"
Satisfied?