London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

[detective-boy]

Frankly, I'm not that bothered with your defence of police tactics, that are clearly raising concerns amongst a sizeable section of the populace. Specifically, people who would normally be supportive of the police.

If you actually bothered reading my detailed critique of the containment tactic you would know that I have criticised how it has been used in a number of ways since before G20, with many of my concerns being reflected in the HMIC report "Adapting to Protest" too.

The vast majority of the public would have no particular problem with the tactic of containment and would see, if the media were responsible enough to explain how and when it's use may be appropriate, to realise that it has a time and place when it's use is entirely justifable.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh dear! You do realise that you're going to be drummed out of The Collective for this. EVERYONE knows that the protestors were entirely peaceful and that none brought any weapons, especially not snooker balls (which, for some reason, would obviously be v.v.bad ...)

I'd ask you to post up any post on this thread that claims that the protesters were entirely peaceful, but we both know you can't.

And please learn to spell "protesters" correctly.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You're such a fucking moron.

The depressing thing is that he isn't.

 

[detective-boy]

Facts, and particularly the sort of 'facts' you're trying to claim authority for, are observations seen from a certain perspective; your choice of perspective is consistently craven.

Bollocks. Facts are facts. This snooker ball was thrown. That officer hit that protestor with a baton. Perspective is irrelevent (unless you are pompous clown, obviously ...)

Laughable made no less so by your example; remember that leading light of the judiciary who thought that the retention of capital punishment would have solved some high profile miscarriages of justice?

What the fuck are you chatting about, you lying prick. I have NEVER supported capital punishment. Never. Ever. Fucking liar.

Don't bother responding to any of my posts again, or attemtping to engage me in any way.

I don't waste my time with bare-faced liars.

 

[ViolentPanda]

"Long-standing"?

You're fucking deluded mate. I have never heard of snooker balls being used in protests (as opposed to pub fights) before.

Another one of those pesky cases of almost everyone except you being deluded, eh?

 

[butchersapron]

Bollocks. Facts are facts. This snooker ball was thrown. That officer hit that protestor with a baton. Perspective is irrelevent (unless you are pompous clown, obviously ...)


What the fuck are you chatting about, you lying prick. I have NEVER supported capital punishment. Never. Ever. Fucking liar.

Don't bother responding to any of my posts again, or attemtping to engage me in any way.

I don't waste my time with bare-faced liars.

What snooker ball? What officer? How do you know this?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Bollocks. Facts are facts. This snooker ball was thrown.

You'd said in a previous post that you'd seen a pink snooker ball in a photo. Present your evidence that it was thrown, or fuck off chatting shit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

this simply doesn't run true to history. I remind you of the vast gulf in between what menezes killers claimed went on and the accounts of everyone else.

Everyone else were fucking deluded lying pricks, obviously.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nor do you, you fuckin' arrogant inconsistent prick. You're a fuckin' joke.

Oh, he does, because his friend was hit on the helmet by one.

What a copper thought he was doing with his knob out in the middle of a protest, I don't know!

 

[detective-boy]

Do you have any evidence of firefighters being attacked.?

Yes. One of the MayDays around 2000. Not sure which. When trying to get to a fire started against the door of a shop in Oxford Street which was extinguished by use of equipment from the store and a neighbouring one. That is one example from personal experience. I am aware of others from colleagues (inlcuding one at the Poll Tax disturbances).

Please explain to me where in the hippocratic oath it allows for medics to beat the shit out of people. Here is a copy to help you out.

He's a police officer with medic training, not a fucking doctor. He hasn't taken the fucking Hippocratic Oath you moron.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Oh, he does, because his friend was hit on the helmet by one.

What a copper thought he was doing with his knob out in the middle of a protest, I don't know!

lol

 

[butchersapron]

Yes. One of the MayDays around 2000. Not sure which. When trying to get to a fire started against the door of a shop in Oxford Street which was extinguished by use of equipment from the store and a neighbouring one. That is one example from personal experience. I am aware of others from colleagues (inlcuding one at the Poll Tax disturbances).


He's a police officer with medic training, not a fucking doctor. He hasn't taken the fucking Hippocratic Oath you moron.

Compelling.

 

[detective-boy]

at the same time the only real justification for depriving someone of their liberty, their freedom of assembly and association under these circumstances is breach of the peace (or indeed fear of breach of the peace).

Breach of the peace is neither a crime nor a piece of judical legislation, it is in fact a situation.

It is a Common Law concept and the police (and everyone else for that matter) have well-established powers to stop one which is happening and to prevent one which is anticipated. It is inextricably linked to the concept of the maintenance of the Queen's Peace, which is at the heart of public order policing - the "Peace" is the same in each case.

A copper trying to hide behind the law to justify police operational tactics is on very shaky ground indeed.

Absolute complete and utter bollocks. I suggest you go and read some law and some cases ...

 

[ViolentPanda]

Bollocks. Facts are facts. This snooker ball was thrown. That officer hit that protestor with a baton. Perspective is irrelevent (unless you are pompous clown, obviously ...)


What the fuck are you chatting about, you lying prick. I have NEVER supported capital punishment. Never. Ever. Fucking liar.

Don't bother responding to any of my posts again, or attemtping to engage me in any way.

I don't waste my time with bare-faced liars.

He didn't say that you'd ever supported capital punishment. He was referring to a "leading light of the judiciary", and as I doubt that you're one...

 

[detective-boy]

So, given the context of the post this is in reply to, you're claiming that it's the volume of police/public interactions that make the police less able to control the red mist, then?

No, idiot. As you well know.

 

[detective-boy]

Only in d-b world. I always answer your posts pertinently, and you almost always hone in on a single sentence, de-contextualise it, and then reply to that de-contextualised point.

And, as here, you almost always post a whole load of irrelevant shite and avoid the actual point.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Compelling.

Wasn't the whole "firefighters attacked by rioters at Poll Tax demo" thing disproved back in the '90s?

 

[moon23]

Oh, he does, because his friend was hit on the helmet by one.

This copper says he saw them being thrown, either way he was hit by a pretty heavy missle to knock him out with his helmet on.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...epared-says-policeman-hurt-in-student-riot.do

 

[butchersapron]

No, not either way. And no he wasn't.

 

[detective-boy]

No it is random irrelevant crap. Demonstrating is a democratic right as is the right to hold whatever political views you choose. Being a revolutionary is not a reason for being beaten up by the cops and neither is demonstrating a justification for being dragged out of your wheelchair and dragged across the road by a power crazy thug in uniform.

I didn't say it was though, did I? Please try and understand what I actually post ... It's quite easy really ... especially as I have already posted that the use of force (on the second occasion he was removed from his wheelchair at least) appears unjustifiable ...

 

[butchersapron]

Wasn't the whole "firefighters attacked by rioters at Poll Tax demo" thing disproved back in the '90s?

There's a list longer than coppers convicted of deaths in custody of false claims like this.

Snooker balls. FFS.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No, idiot. As you well know.

See, this is your problem, you assume that everything is an attack on you, when most of the time you've not explained yourself very well, and people are merely seeking confirmation of your meaning.

 

[DotCommunist]

as mythical as the hail of bottles raining down on the medics scraping tomlinson of the tarmac

 

[Streathamite]

It's not "utterly irrelevant crap" as it demonstrates to any observer where he is coming from ... whereas they may be under the impression he was some random disabled bloke who just happened to be there / wouldn't be involved in any front line activity, etc.

I thought personally the whole town of Brown's approach was arrogant, hectoring and unpleasant, typical i'm-a-top-beeb-presenter-call-me-god-you-peasants approach

 

[rekil]

Oops, got something wrong. The charge happened after the copper got trampled by his own horse. I crave forgiveness for my error.

Provided there was some justification for moving the crowd back (or, rather, to one side of the road), that was a perfectly reasonable use of horses - the advance was controlled and there was ample room for people to move away into.

Personally I think that could have been achieved by the police line moving people back ... but that may have been tried and failed and it may have been impossible along such a length of road without the use of horses.

(ETA: As appears may well have been the case

Nah, bollocks, the cavalry achieved fuck all except for making people very angry and your gang lost. Personally I think it's just unfortunate that there wasn't a line of 9 foot long poles to discourage them and give the mounted hooligans a bloody good poking. Anyhow, may I refer you to post 198.

 

[detective-boy]

Another thread sacrificed on the altar of d-b's ego.

What the fuck are you talking about? YOU are the one starting an irrelevant derail slagging me off (as usual) whilst I am answering the myriad substantive points made which I have a view on ...

 

[ViolentPanda]

I didn't say it was though, did I? Please try and understand what I actually post ... It's quite easy really ... especially as I have already posted that the use of force (on the second occasion he was removed from his wheelchair at least) appears unjustifiable ...

Why should anyone put themselves out to understand you, when you clearly can't be arsed to try and understand their posts? What makes you a special case, worthy of something you deny others?

 

[detective-boy]

This is ominous.

Why? I would have thought that you would have liked the idea of convicted violent criminals being prohibited by a post-conviction ASBO from attending any more "peaceful" protests and thus giving trhe thug police an excuse to beat up all the nice lickle students ...

 

[ViolentPanda]

This copper says he saw them being thrown, either way he was hit by a pretty heavy missle to knock him out with his helmet on.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...epared-says-policeman-hurt-in-student-riot.do

So, we've had friend of detective-boy and this copper claiming to have seen/been hit by snooker balls, many column inches and much screen-time given over to the idea that they were used, but how much actual proof?
Were any found post-protest? During the protest? When the street-cleaners got to work?
Or did the snooker ball fairies come along, sprinkle star-dust in everyones' eyes, and spirit the snooker balls away to the land of the Sidhe?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Why should anyone put themselves out to understand you, when you clearly can't be arsed to try and understand their posts? What makes you a special case, worthy of something you deny others?

Maybe because his head is so firmly lodged up his police apologist arse?