CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
That police won't investigate prostitution because they love banging whores too much
Legalising Brothels
- Thread starter The Black Hand
- Start date
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
untethered
For industry & decency
So you would have no concerns or objections to you, your partner and your children being involved in prostitution, either as prostitutes or as customers?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Mr "Femnazi" doesn't have a partner. That's why he loves prostitution so much - it's his only guarantee of a shag.
I'm sure there are plenty of other jobs some people would find unappealing but there aren't calls to ban them, for example, army infantry.
Yeah that and your mum.
untethered
For industry & decency
I asked what would you think about you, your partner and your children being involved in prostitution.
_angel_
.
There may be lots of legal jobs you wouldn't want your family doing, not sure about that argument.
Not sure about the whole pro or cons to brothels being legalised.
untethered
For industry & decency
I asked not just with reference to being a prostitute but also to being a customer.
Is prostitution just another job? Is going to a prostitute just another leisure activity?
There are many unpleasant jobs. The difference is that usually they have clear social benefits. Someone has to clean the drains, sweep the streets, staff the prisons, defend the country. I'd prefer to do a safe and clean job myself and for my family to do likewise, but I have considerable respect for those that do society's dirty work for the common good. Prostitution doesn't appear to fall into this category.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
well - they do love it....and it is one reason why they will never, ever, seriously attempt to crack down on prostitution. There are other reasons as well, which all add up to there being absolutely not a chance in hell of the police giving the issue serious long-term attention.
zenie
>^^<
For some people yes it is to both questions.
Why not? Have you actually considered thinking about who uses prostiutes? Disabled people for example?
_angel_
.
Well, prostitution is legal in this country, just not running a brothel. I'm not too sure what I think to be honest.
Some people cite prostitutes as performing a social service (esp to elderly or disabled people or just anyone who can't get a shag) I'm not sure what I think about that argument either, really.
I don't think you'd have to be a customer to back legalised brothels, that's a bit like saying as a vegetarian I don't think anyone should be allowed to eat meat unless I wanted to.
untethered
For industry & decency
While I'm sure disabled people represent a tiny minority of prostitutes' customers, I'm sure it's no better for prostitutes to perform the grim task of servicing those people as it would be for anyone else, nor are disabled people's lives enhanced by treating sex as another tradable commodity any more than anyone else's would be.
It's a dirty, disreputable business in all its manifestations and the people concerned and the rest of society would be a great deal better off without it.
CyberRose
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Well I'm not sure that you could back that claim up with any evidence or research, it's pretty irrelevant as the police don't decide what to investigate and what not to investigate, the government tells them what to do and if they don't do it, the government will change that...
CyberRose
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Nobody has a "right" to have sex with anyone...For some people yes it is to both questions.
Why not? Have you actually considered thinking about who uses prostiutes? Disabled people for example?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
mm, but thats bollocks. Complete and utter bollocks. The police DO decide what crimes to investigate and what ones to ignore. And different forces decide different things. ALL of them, tho, decide to virtually ignore prostitution. You're just plain wrong here.
CyberRose
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But if the government wanted a specific crime to be prioritised then they would do and the police would have to do it. I will agree that police can prioritise their own work, at the end of the day the government can prioritise it for them.
Anyway, whether that is right or wrong, that's detracting from what you originally said. You said the police won't investigate prostitution because they all like banging whores too much. I think that's a ridiculous and totally unfounded argument to make...
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I agree with you, it's not necessarily always oppressive, some women can get their heads round it and treat like any other job. However, I'd argue that even many of those are doing it because they don't feel as though they have other options, can't get a different kind of well-paid, flexible hours job. While that's not so oppressive in a dark kind of way, it's arguably oppression-lite...
I just double-checked the definition of oppression (for my own benefit as much as anyone else's):
1. the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.
2. an act or instance of oppressing.
3. the state of being oppressed.
4. the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc.
While those women who feel a bit more sexually liberated and okay with what they do aren't necessarily having any kind of external authority or power exercised over them, are they doing it through being "heavily burdened, heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc."? Are they doing it because they have financial commitments they can't meet by working in other part-time or traditionally low-paid 'women's work'? Are they heavily burdened by the responsibility of raising children without the financial or other support of a partner?
I'd argue that a lot of those women who don't feel oppressed still wouldn't choose to be doing it if they felt they had other options.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
well, dont get too hung up on that one minor point then. the police know full well where brothels are. you and i probably both know where few brothels are. the police do nothing about them, and not just because there is no big order from on high from the government. they do nothing, because hey don't really care, i guess. the idea that the government could come and tell them to make it a long-term priority and that thy would all jump to do so is sheer fantasy.
CyberRose
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If you'd said they don't investigate because they don't care I would never have said anything. But, that's not the reason you gave first of all is it? Anyway, we should leave it because I don't think it really helps either of our arguments...
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
You won't believe how many arguments I've had along these lines.
I'm always accused by do-gooders of being judgemental because I do disapprove of prostitution, because in the vast majority of cases, it is about objectification and oppression and exploitation and huge amount of sexual slavery and trafficking.
The argument I encounter is that no one should look down on sex workers because of what they do, because, like you say, they're often poor people who've had shit lives and probably couldn't make something of themselves anyway. Basically, given their childhoods and their previous experiences, it's pretty much all they can expect, they can't hope for anything better. I get subjected to furious tirades about how I shouldn't blame them for being the product of their circumstances.
Erm, excuse me, I'm a product of similar circumstances. I was physically abused and taken into care as a teenager. Shortly after I went into care, I met another girl who was talking to one of the lads and telling him about how she was "dealing in black guys". At the age of 13, that comment went straight over my head, but I later came to realise that she was talking about her client group. Over the years, I met and lived with other children who turned tricks, some got into drugs, others didn't.
When I think about it, I often think: "There but for the grace of God..."
So, what's the difference between me and them? How come they ended up prostitutes, how come some of them ended up crack whores in and out of prison, and how come I didn't.
Well, for a start, when do-gooders like social workers and housing workers and other support workers start explaining it all away as women being a product of their circumstances, I get angry, and I refuse to accept it. Just because some people had a shit childhood, why should they accept the patronising justifications of do-gooders that they can't expect any better out of life (and from my knowledge of it, through hearing and seeing other people's accounts, it is a miserable experience, it isn't loads of sexually liberated in control of their lives women like Belle de Jour)?
Why shouldn't children who are having a shit life be entitled to dream that their future might amount to more than drugs, crime, prostitution and prison? Why are they led to believe that's all they can expect? Why is it justified? Why aren't those do-gooders saying actually, I wouldn't want my son or daughter to be doing that, so I wouldn't want other people with less fortunate backgrounds to feel as though they have to do that either, that they have no other options.
Why aren't those do-gooders campaigning for intervention, for better funding for drug and alcohol treatment programmes? Why aren't they campaigning for higher pay for women in low paid jobs, why aren't they campaigning for better access to affordable childcare and housing?
Statistically, people who were in care are more likely to end up involved in prostitution, in prison, homeless, with mental health problems.
I'd admire those WI women a lot more if they were tackling society's failures in that respect, instead of arguing to legalise the result of those failures. If they addressed lack of expectations, provision of remedial education to help children catch up what they've missed, better support for those going on to higher education (I understand things are a bit better now than when I left care at the age of 17, but you're pretty much left to fend for yourself and support yourself). Instead of telling women that's all they can expect, I wish they'd tell them they're allowed to dream for better things, they're capable of achieving them, and they'll get help and support to do so.
I get accused of being judgemental for my attitude towards prostitution (because I know for the most part it's not the glamourous highly paid escort experience, it's seedy, it's risky to health and wellbeing, it's dangerous) but I think those do-gooders are far more judgemental. Like you said, it's something they consider to be acceptable for "other people", so who's looking down on who, me who's saying they shouldn't have to settle for such shit in life, despite the unfortunate circumstances of their upbringing, or those who think that people who've had a bad childhood experience can't expect or don't deserve anything better?
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
The hypocrisy of the journalism industry annoys me.
Every so often you get a front page news story in the local paper about a brothel raid and trafficked women being rescued. Ooh, people trafficking bad, sexual slavery bad goes the censorious tone of the article.
But then you turn towards the back of the paper to the classified ad section and there's a load of adverts for massage parlours. Nice touch that, condeming the sex trade on the front page while profiting from it yourself.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
untethered
For industry & decency
You'll be pleased to hear, as I was, that the local newspapers run by Newsquest have discontinued all their "adult services" adverts:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/greenslade/2008/07/newsquest_drops_adult_services.html
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
The State should do everything in its power to discourage prostitution its a disgusting business.I doubt many people enjoy being prostitutes .It may always be with us but it shouldnt be encouraged .
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
That's right, solve all problems with increased State intervention. That'll surely encourage people to take ownership of their own lives and of society. Aren't new laws wonderful things? Don't they just take all the thinking and agency out of ones day-to-day activities?
And your evidence for this ridiculous claim is ...
They don't actually. Every force area with street prostitution gets pressurised into doing something about it by local residents. There is a national ACPO-led campaign relating to trafficked women being abused by brothel owners across the country. You're talking bollocks.
As untethered has pointed out, following pressure from the police (connected with the people trafficking operation), at least one major free paper group has decided to abandon carrying the ads nationwide. (Funny how the police managed to persuade them to do that, seeing as how they refuse to have anything to do with policing prostitution ...
)How do you work that out?
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