Language learning support/community thread

[october_lost]

I decided I needed to up the ante, and I am doing mandarin Skype lessons about 3-5 hours a week with lots of personal study. Feel I have made some progress, though my listening needs to pickup.

Since I have a good foundation in mandarin, well, been learning it over a long time, I read somewhere that doing multiple languages is okay as long as they are staggered (ie dont start learning them at the same time) and aren't similar. Really want to learn Spanish as well and can't foresee me perfecting mandarin and then coming back years later. Bad idea. Therefore, aiming to do an hour of class time a week in that.

 

[ReturnOfElfman]

I decided I needed to up the ante, and I am doing mandarin Skype lessons about 3-5 hours a week with lots of personal study. Feel I have made some progress, though my listening needs to pickup.

Since I have a good foundation in mandarin, well, been learning it over a long time, I read somewhere that doing multiple languages is okay as long as they are staggered (ie dont start learning them at the same time) and aren't similar. Really want to learn Spanish as well and can't foresee me perfecting mandarin and then coming back years later. Bad idea. Therefore, aiming to do an hour of class time a week in that.

Got any tips for me? I'm doing shit and I live in China

 

[october_lost]

I know youre being flippant, but...there probably are no shortcuts, it's a sod to learn. Just have fun doing it. I just try and dissect a lot of music I like to listen to, mainly heibao and cuijian, but also watch stuff like feichengwurao and xiyangyang. The majority of its meaning escapes me like, but you burn out if you just stare at books for hours at a time.

It's amazing when you return to stuff weeks later, how much you have managed to pick up...

 

[Greebo]

<snip>It's amazing when you return to stuff weeks later, how much you have managed to pick up...

Agreed. The brain seems to need time to sort out and make sense of what you're trying to add. Sometimes, letting the language just wash over you, even if it makes almost no sense at all, makes it easier to get a grip on it later.

 

[ReturnOfElfman]

I know youre being flippant, but...there probably are no shortcuts, it's a sod to learn. Just have fun doing it. I just try and dissect a lot of music I like to listen to, mainly heibao and cuijian, but also watch stuff like feichengwurao and xiyangyang. The majority of its meaning escapes me like, but you burn out if you just stare at books for hours at a time.

It's amazing when you return to stuff weeks later, how much you have managed to pick up...

I don't have any fun doing it

 

[Greebo]

I don't have any fun doing it

What can I say? Sometimes it is shit and you just have to wade through to get to the good stuff.

I've cried myself to sleep before now at the sheer frustration of German grammar (agreement of adjectives and noun endings, in particular) refusing to stick in my memory. But it's not always like that.

Perhaps you could find something frivolous in that language, a children's cartoon or the trashiest tabloid/comic you can tolerate. Then try working through that, looking for the bits you can puzzle out?

 

[ReturnOfElfman]

What can I say? Sometimes it is shit and you just have to wade through to get to the good stuff.

I've cried myself to sleep before now at the sheer frustration of German grammar (agreement of adjectives and noun endings, in particular) refusing to stick in my memory. But it's not always like that.

Perhaps you could find something frivolous in that language, a children's cartoon or the trashiest tabloid/comic you can tolerate. Then try working through that, looking for the bits you can puzzle out?

At the moment, I'm just watching as many films as I can then watching the odd 'learning' video and noting down phrases I don't know and read through them a few times when maybe 3 or 4 times a day. Then just building up some vocab with some videos I've found. I also listen to the odd podcast. But I doubt I'm spending more than 30 mins a day learning anything. It's not the most productive way to do it but it's better than nothing.

 

[Greebo]

At the moment, I'm just watching as many films as I can then watching the odd 'learning' video and noting down phrases I don't know and read through them a few times when maybe 3 or 4 times a day. Then just building up some vocab with some videos I've found. I also listen to the odd podcast. But I doubt I'm spending more than 30 mins a day learning anything. It's not the most productive way to do it but it's better than nothing.

Don't be so hard on yourself. As long as you do it often and regularly, it doesn't matter if each little bit is only half an hour or even less. In fact, short bursts like that might go in and be remembered more easily than longer sessions of over an hour but only once a week.

 

[october_lost]

Agreed. I try and break stuff up. Books, music, listening exercise, flash cards, iPad app.

If you're in China you should easily be able to find a receptive audience for language exchange. But I have to agree with Lo Sientos' previous comments about the need for tutoring. Having someone tell me off reguarly for bad pronunciation has really helped.

 

[ReturnOfElfman]

Don't be so hard on yourself. As long as you do it often and regularly, it doesn't matter if each little bit is only half an hour or even less. In fact, short bursts like that might go in and be remembered more easily than longer sessions of over an hour but only once a week.

Sorry, i made it sound like I actually do almost 30 mins everyday, it's more like I'll never do more than 30 mins, often won't do anything. I go through bursts of learning (mainly in the holidays) but when I go back to work I just cba.

Agreed. I try and break stuff up. Books, music, listening exercise, flash cards, iPad app.

If you're in China you should easily be able to find a receptive audience for language exchange. But I have to agree with Lo Sientos' previous comments about the need for tutoring. Having someone tell me off reguarly for bad pronunciation has really helped.

I'm actually married to a local and have had tutoring from friends to help with my pronunciation in the past. It never lasts though as I get bored of it. I often get annoyed with the tutors too as I don't like being taught

 

[Greebo]

Sorry, i made it sound like I actually do almost 30 mins everyday, it's more like I'll never do more than 30 mins, often won't do anything. I go through bursts of learning (mainly in the holidays) but when I go back to work I just cba.<snip>

Knowing what you should ideally do and actually managing to do it are two very different things. Do what you can when you can - if two minutes are all you can spare, so be it. Any time at all is better than none. Got an appointments diary for work or other stuff? Book it in there. Use time in the lift, queueing time, commuting time - whatever. Be obsessive about it.

 

[maya]

Sorry for slightly derailing the thread here as this is just a question for you, oh language-mighty ones... German crew, could you look at this title of a game I found yesterday: "Wo jagen hund und fuchs?" By the power(?) of deductive reasoning, plus convenient familiarity with scandinavian (i.e. germanic) languages which share word similarities, I've guessed that it must mean something along the lines of: "Who is [a/the] dog and ? chasing?", or the other way around perhaps: "who's chasing the dog and ?"
... Am I on the right track here, or does it mean something else entirely? (Also amused by the seemingly terse description underneath which states the game is "Für Jungen und Mädchen von 3 1/2 bis 6 Jahren"- of course just a normal subheading pointing out the age group of the game, but something about the words just make it sound so stern and commanding it's like... Jawohl! They demand you enjoy the game, or else... (!) It looks fun though, so probably being a bit unfair here- but something about the german language sounds a bit icy cold at times- nowt wrong with that of course, just a bit alien and odd...

(*sorry if the -ing tense is incorrect, but my english isn't that good either TBH, so probably grammar mistakes there too... )

 

[tbtommyb]

Sorry for slightly derailing the thread here as this is just a question for you, oh language-mighty ones... German crew, could you look at this title of a game I found yesterday: "Wo jagen hund und fuchs?" By the power(?) of deductive reasoning, plus convenient familiarity with scandinavian (i.e. germanic) languages which share word similarities, I've guessed that it must mean something along the lines of: "Who is [a/the] dog and ? chasing?", or the other way around perhaps: "who's chasing the dog and ?"
... Am I on the right track here, or does it mean something else entirely?

Confusingly, 'wo' means 'where' and 'wer' means 'who'. But beyond that my German is still shitty and so I'm guessing it means 'where do dog and fox hunt?', or something similar...

 

[Greebo]

Confusingly, 'wo' means 'where' and 'wer' means 'who'. But beyond that my German is still shitty and so I'm guessing it means 'where do dog and fox hunt?', or something similar...

That's a good literal translation - I think the game might be fox and hounds/geese, if it's a board (similar to the one for solitaire) with pegs or marbles.

 

[maya]

Confusingly, 'wo' means 'where' and 'wer' means 'who'. But beyond that my German is still shitty and so I'm guessing it means 'where do dog and fox hunt?', or something similar...

That's a good literal translation - I think the game might be fox and hounds/geese, if it's a board (similar to the one for solitaire) with pegs or marbles.

You're quite right- ! Thank you.(-just managed to discover that the english translation is actually printed on the other side of the box! ... double d'oh! )

Quote: "Where do dog and fox hunt?"
"- Scientific observation of children at play has opened new doors: easy learning with functional playthings. With this game the child learns to understand the logical continuity of a story."
^^
-- It's actually quite nifty- A big plastic cube consisting of several puzzle-shaped pieces with illustrations on each piece, which you can take apart and connect in all sorts of different ways to make up a long "story" about what happens next... Really charming period illustrations too (late sixties/early seventies?) ... Anyway, thanks for the help and sorry about the digression! Danke schön/vielen dank- , x

 

[Greebo]

You're quite right- ! Thank you.(-just managed to discover that the english translation is actually printed on the other side of the box! ... double d'oh! )<snip>

you're welcome, Nichts zu danken.

 

[Fez909]

Thanks for keeping bumping this thread. It reminds me to do some Spanish.

Progress is currently being hampered by being Northern. I keep getting mealtimes mixed up because they (duolingo) use Southern English phrases, like "dinner" for "tea".

 

[red rose]

Progress is currently being hampered by being Northern.

Sorry but

 

[goldenecitrone]

Confusingly, 'wo' means 'where' and 'wer' means 'who'. But beyond that my German is still shitty and so I'm guessing it means 'where do dog and fox hunt?', or something similar...

Only confusing until you know this fact and then simply swap them round in your head. Or keep repeating 'Wo wohnst du?' 'Wer bist du denn?' till it sinks in.

 

[Greebo]

Reality check after last weekend:
1) My Polish is nowhere near good enough - yet.
2) At least I was trying to use it where I could - others weren't even using "please", "thank you", "yes", "no", and "excuse me/sorry" (the same phrase is also useful for asking "Hello, please can I get some service here?" without causing annoyance).
3) Gestures get you a long way towards filling in the gaps, so can cartoon drawings (biro and post its FTW).
4) No matter how good the phrase book, it's no good if both your hands are occupied eg on the dancefloor.
5) Getting past selfconsciousness about looking and sounding stupid (local people will probably think that anyway) is difficult, but pays off.
6) Next time I need to stop hanging around with the English-speaking crowd I arrived with and get a lot more exposure to the language, including turning on the telly even if I don't understand a word of it.

So it continues...

 

[october_lost]

The cycle of not being as good as you thought you were is pretty much continual...

http://www.fluentin3months.com/
Anyone seen or heard of this guy? I find him a tad annoying, but basically he seems to argue for total immersion by only using the language you're trying to learn. Has some good words of encouragement.

 

[Riklet]

I've read various things in Spanish before, but mostly nothing too long or arduous.

I'm now over half way through "Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal" which is great, as I've read it in English and know the story, but it´s still a real book with tons of vocabulary and expressions I've had fun working out.

I left Spain for summer holidays in late June and haven´t spoken or listened to daily (but still semi-regularly), but I'm not feeling as rusty as I might have, partly from reading this book, facebook and news in Spanish.

One thing I found difficult in recent Skype talks was listening comprehension though, with my mates generally speaking fairly fast and with a strong Andalusian accent. I'll probably need to get used to that again, but I'm really looking forward to going back in a week.

Does anyone have any suggestions of things to listen to in Spanish, in the meantime?

 

[Greebo]

The cycle of not being as good as you thought you were is pretty much continual...<snip>

I knew that I was going to struggle, what I hadn't taken into account is that the sort of social chitchat which happens during a family wedding weekend is nothing (I mean even with regard to vocabulary) like what I was learning.

<snip>Anyone seen or heard of this guy? I find him a tad annoying, but basically he seems to argue for total immersion by only using the language you're trying to learn. Has some good words of encouragement.

Never heard of him before, and although what he recommends isn't possible for everyone to do (ie total immersion) there are some bits of what he says which seem useful - including the slightly consoling fact that the longer you take to learn it, the more slowly you'll forget it.

 

[october_lost]

Does anyone have any suggestions of things to listen to in Spanish, in the meantime?

I am really keen on Heroes Del Silencio and Jullietta Venegas. As for films, youre spoilt because Spain produces a lot of dramas.

 

[october_lost]

Never heard of him before, and although what he recommends isn't possible for everyone to do (ie total immersion)

I think Skype makes it a genuine possibility if you use it enough. You just won't get through the same range of encounters.

 

[Greebo]

I think Skype makes it a genuine possibility if you use it enough. You just won't get through the same range of encounters.

Guess who hasn't got real broadband?

 

[Fez909]

Is anyone learning multiple new languages simultaneously? Sorry if it's already been mentioned in the thread (I have read it, but don't recall anyone saying so).

I'm enjoying Spanish but I would like to learn another language as well. Would that be helpful or confusing? Would it depend on the other language I chose? For example, a romance language and another romance might be confusing vs a romance and a Germanic? Or perhaps two romance languages would complement each other. Or maybe it's best if I just concentrate on one...

 

[Greebo]

Is anyone learning multiple new languages simultaneously? Sorry if it's already been mentioned in the thread (I have read it, but don't recall anyone saying so).<snip>

FWIW I started German one year after starting French, but that was at school - none of the teachers said or thought that it was too difficult to learn two languages at once. I'm thinking of taking Polish quite a bit further, then throwing Spanish in (only got a few words of that) and possibly something else but we'll see, as I still need a bit of time to keep the languages already learnt at a useful level. IME to some extent one language can reinforce another (eg if "ham" is similar in both languages and has the same gender) but it can also make things confusing at times.

If you're fairly confident that you've got the absolute basics in Spanish (including having a feel for the spelling and pronunciation), you'd probably be okay adding another language at this point. Anyway, there's one way to find out.

 

[Fez909]

Nice one.

Right then. I don't know which one to choose next. I'm tempted by German as I'm likely to go back there soon - probably multiple times. But then I've always been embarrassed that I don't know any French. I know less than a handful of words and have no idea how to pronounce words which I can recognise as French immediately. Have never been to France but would like to, and of course the French don't like speaking English to Englishmen. Whereas in Germany everyone is happy to speak English.

Hmmm!

 

[Greebo]

<snip>Right then. I don't know which one to choose next.<snip>

You've already got your tongue around Spanish, French has quite a bit in common with it (spelling wise at least, even if j is often "h" in Spanish and "zh" in French), and you'll probably find yourself going through there to get to Germany, unless you fly every time. The other good thing is that a lot of French children learn Spanish (not English) as their first foreign language.

Not sure I agree that everyone in Germany is happy to speak English (although they'll generally at least try, unlike a lot of French people). The further east and the further into the areas where you don't get a lot of British or American tourists (North Sea coast?), the more you'll need whatever German fragments you can dredge up.