Language learning support/community thread

[Stanley Edwards]

After 7 years I have only just found the confidence to move into an all Spanish speaking house. In that time I have watched others pick up the lingo to almost fluent levels in months.

It is the subtleties that scare me. I've just written marketing blurb in English and I am totally lost about how to make the sophistication work in Spanish.

Language can be as complicated, or as simple as you want it to be. Some people manage to be very eloquent with a very limited vocabulary.

Good advice in this thread. For me, the only thing that works is total immersion and repetition. Trying to learn from theory alone was pointless.

 

[Sweet Meiga]

Polish (Michel Thomas method plus a few other bits) aiming to be fluent in it for basic everyday use, by this summer.

1) Little and often - relying on one lesson a week leaves far too much time to forget.
2) Repetition, repetition, repetition.
3) Work out what makes things stick in your memory and use it.
4) To get the hang of the pitch, stresses, rhythm, and intonation of the language you're learning, find an audiobook in that language, read by a woman if you're female, or a man if you're male. Never mind if you barely understand a word of it, half the battle is getting the voice right.
5) If you're past the very first steps but find the broadsheets and classics too much like hard work, try the tabloids, glossy magazines, and comics. The sense of achievement of finishing a whole page without breaking into a sweat is worth it.
6) Don't expect it to come overnight; why should it when you spent at least 12 years learning how to use your mother tongue properly?

I've never heard of that! In your own experience, is there really a difference?

 

[Greebo]

It is the subtleties that scare me. I've just written marketing blurb in English and I am totally lost about how to make the sophistication work in Spanish.<snip>

Ask your spanish-speaking friends; not for a direct translation but something (in Spanish) along the lines of "I want to make what I'm writing look more like a magazine advert, can you help me please?" Rough out what you can in the basic Spanish you know, then get their help polishing it to get the right tone.

 

[Remus Harbank]

If anyone has any German questions, ich bin hier für Euch

 

[Greebo]

I've never heard of that! In your own experience, is there really a difference?

There is a bit - to sound closer to the right accent and intonation, I need to pitch my voice down for German (this hurts my throat but otherwise I sound too juvenile) and up a bit for French.

 

[Greebo]

Proper update time:
<snip>I've also been studying on the tube to and from work every day. I'm getting a bit put off by the funny looks I get though, one guy just outright gawked at me for the entire journey when I was writing some vocab I don't understand why it get such weird reactions.<snip>

Well done with the films and making yourself study. As for the reactions on the tube, people are rude and nosy buggers, end of.

Not as much as I should here, I've got excuses (including the 20 stone one in the other room), but they're just that, and this stuff isn't going to learn itself. at self.

 

[Sweet Meiga]

There is a bit - to sound closer to the right accent and intonation, I need to pitch my voice down for German (this hurts my throat but otherwise I sound too juvenile) and up a bit for French.

Thanks, that makes sense
I was overthinking and thought that maybe the reasoning behind that technique was that women memorise things better if they are read by a woman or something

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Belushi my husband is definitely well up for a beer and German night if you fancy it....

 

[Stanley Edwards]

Ask your spanish-speaking friends; not for a direct translation but something (in Spanish) along the lines of "I want to make what I'm writing look more like a magazine advert, can you help me please?" Rough out what you can in the basic Spanish you know, then get their help polishing it to get the right tone.

I would need a Spanish friend with very high level copywriting skills. It isn't as easy as just making it 'read like a magazine advert'. I'd sooner not take the chance.

 

[smorodina]

Forever studying French... found that bandes desigee work best for me..

 

[october_lost]

Forever studying French... found that bandes desigee work best for me..

And speaking and listening?

 

[Lo Siento.]

Polish (Michel Thomas method plus a few other bits) aiming to be fluent in it for basic everyday use, by this summer.

1) Little and often - relying on one lesson a week leaves far too much time to forget.
2) Repetition, repetition, repetition.
3) Work out what makes things stick in your memory and use it.

6) Don't expect it to come overnight; why should it when you spent at least 12 years learning how to use your mother tongue properly?

Excuse my cynicism, but isn't your goal rather contradicted by point 6? I mean, even if you lived in Poland, I wouldn't expect your Polish to be "fluent" in any sense I understand that word in 6 months, let alone learning at home...

The 4 points quoted are correct, although I would add that I've never seen anyone who significantly improved their language skills at home, without classes and without interactions with real human beings...

 

[smorodina]

And speaking and listening?

Not so much
I'm painfully shy in a bad way. I can't bring myself to speak as i realise that's it's going to be a disaster.. Catch 22 in a way.. Mind you, when i drink my inhibitions disappear and my french is perfect
* i do not recommend this technique

 

[Greebo]

Excuse my cynicism, but isn't your goal rather contradicted by point 6? I mean, even if you lived in Poland, I wouldn't expect your Polish to be "fluent" in any sense I understand that word in 6 months, let alone learning at home...<snip>

Yes, but I know myself enough to realise that if I settle for learning to say "yes", "no", "cheers", "please", "thank you", "where are the toilets?", "no onion in this", "I don't understand", and "please speak English" I won't even get that far.

As it is, my Polish has improved from zero to using a few modal verbs, a few prepositions, learning the negative form of "it" and "what", the polite female and male forms... Nowhere near perfect, and I struggle to remember complex phrases, but better than just waiting until I could afford one on one tuition (this year, next year, sometime, never). As far as I'm concerned, if people working for the diplomatic service can become fluent enough (not mother tongue level, just fluent in everyday general stuff) in 6 months of working (more or less full time) at learning another new language from scratch, then it might just about be possible for me. Unless, that is, I acknowledge right now that it's overambitious and therefore don't even try.

 

[Greebo]

Forever studying French... found that bandes desigee work best for me..

Oh yes, Asterix FTW.

 

[october_lost]

So I have taken the effort to watch regularly cartoons and soap operas. But I was curious, should my time watching this be made to try and comprehend everything spoken, to minute detail, or just absorb the flow of the language?

 

[Lo Siento.]

So I have taken the effort to watch regularly cartoons and soap operas. But I was curious, should my time watching this be made to try and comprehend everything spoken, to minute detail, or just absorb the flow of the language?

Listening practice is for working on your comprehension. If you want to improve your structure and range, I'd try reading and writing.

 

[maomao]

So I have taken the effort to watch regularly cartoons and soap operas. But I was curious, should my time watching this be made to try and comprehend everything spoken, to minute detail, or just absorb the flow of the language?

I'd do both. Choose bits of what you're watching and either transcribe them (though that's very difficult if you're a beginner) or if you have a script rote learn it till you're sure what every word means. But just little bits. Watch the rest of it at normal speed and see what you cn absorb.

 

[Lo Siento.]

I'd do both. Choose bits of what you're watching and either transcribe them (though that's very difficult if you're a beginner) or if you have a script rote learn it till you're sure what every word means. But just little bits. Watch the rest of it at normal speed and see what you cn absorb.

totally disagree, sorry. You should use materials to help you with whichever skill they relate to - there's sod all point transcribing something you're hearing word for word, because it's not something you would actually do when you're using the language.

 

[maomao]

totally disagree, sorry. You should use materials to help you with whichever skill they relate to - there's sod all point transcribing thing you're hearing word for word, because it's not something you would actually do when you're using the language.

*shrug*

That's exactly how I learned Chinese but most Chinese TV has subtitles. Repeating and imitating aren't skills you use in conversation but they're good building blocks.

 

[Greebo]

Okay, I've now got a few useful bits under my belt, but the Michel Thomas course so far has left out vocabulary which could be important. There's not much point in being able to ask politely where the toilets are, if you're not also taught words which might be part of the answer. eg "left", "right", "straight ahead", "behind you", "come with me", or "follow me".

No numbers or colours yet either. It's just as well that I've also got a rough guide phrase book.

 

[Limejuice]

There's not much point in being able to ask politely where the toilets are, if you're not also taught words which might be part of the answer. eg *snip* "come with me" *snip*

You might also want to learn how to respond: "My mother warned me about this." in the same language.

 

[ReturnOfElfman]

Been slowly progressing. Did the 1st Pimsleurs Mandarin in Jan/Feb then haven't put much effort in until the last couple of weeks. I got about 1/2 way through the 2nd Pimsleurs and decided it's too boring so I'm back to mixing and matching. I'm just going through various videos and anything new I'm writing down on a word doc and going through it every day, then deleting the phrase once I'm confident I've learnt it. Not ideal but going through audio/books with audio/software just seems to bore me after a few days.

Saw this the other day and it looks interesting. http://www.fluentu.com/
Basically gets youtube vids in whatever language then breaks down all the dialogue with translations and lists all the key words associated with it. Also has some audiobooks with breakdown of vocab. I'm quite reluctant to pay for anything though!

 

[Greebo]

You might also want to learn how to respond: "My mother warned me about this." in the same language.

Thanks, I needed that.

 

[Dovydaitis]

been wanting to learn German for ages, even have some beginner online things but I just can't seem to get the motivation to

 

[Greebo]

been wanting to learn German for ages, even have some beginner online things but I just can't seem to get the motivation to

Okay, if you could speak German tomorrow and money was no object, how would you use the language? BTW I'm asking this to try and work out what sort of incentive might work for you.

 

[Fez909]

This might be useful to language learners: http://www.duolingo.com/

So far they have

• Spanish
• English
• French
• German
• Portuguese
• Italian

 

[Dovydaitis]

Okay, if you could speak German tomorrow and money was no object, how would you use the language? BTW I'm asking this to try and work out what sort of incentive might work for you.

If I do my PhD (starting MA next month) then I would need German for half of my sources. Have managed to 'get by' for my undergrad but the subject matter was new territory so ideal for PhD

 

[Greebo]

If I do my PhD (starting MA next month) then I would need German for half of my sources. Have managed to 'get by' for my undergrad but the subject matter was new territory so ideal for PhD

Holiday and business German courses are unlikely to suit you then. But helping your PhD sounds a pretty good incentive to me.

Says the person killing time here instead of memorising a bit more Polish. at self.

 

[mwgdrwg]

I'm going to be learning Japanese in October. Super excited about it. Anyone with any experience or advice?