Lambeth and Section 60 stop and search orders

[editor]

Not just Lambeth either....

All of Lambeth is under a Section 60 stop and search order until 3am, Weds 7th Nov

 

[editor]

 

[Pickman's model]

Swamp 81 18

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The hell

 

[Smick]

I saw two police officers patrolling Palace Road, Tulse Hill, on foot this evening. Not a normal occurrence.

 

[sparkybird]

If this stops one young person from dying then bring it on.

 

[spanglechick]

I’ve got to say, teaching in Lambeth right now feels like a sword of Damocles until it’s one of our kids... the horror is relentless and my fear for our kids is almost overwhelming.

It a short term initiative like this helps to diffuse the current crisis, and deters these lads from being on the streets while their blood is up, I’m grateful for the chance to save some young lives.

 

[Treacle Toes]

It a short term initiative like this helps to diffuse the current crisis, and deters these lads from being on the streets while their blood is up, I’m grateful for the chance to save some young lives.

Young people, especially young men, need to go home and stay there as much as is possible IMO. The weather lends itself well to that at the minute, I just worry that 'home' doesn't for some and that's part of the problem.

 

[weepiper]

Another stabbing in Camden this evening

 

[a_chap]

Good god

 

[Pickman's model]

If this stops one young person from dying then bring it on.

Not sure you've grasped the point of stop and search

 

[editor]

The amount of people on Facebook voicing their full approval for this full-on stop and search policy and demanding that it should be a permanent thing.

 

[ska invita]

Young people, especially young men, need to go home and stay there as much as is possible IMO. The weather lends itself well to that at the minute, I just worry that 'home' doesn't for some and that's part of the problem.

a massive reason that comes up as to why parents let their kids out so much is because of overcrowding at home

 

[Treacle Toes]

a massive reason that comes up as to why parents let their kids out so much is because of overcrowding at home

Overcrowding.
Hostile/abusive.
Uncomfortable.
Bored.
...and any number of reasons that I remember not wanting to stay home when I was a teenager/younger.

I almost always felt safer at home than on the streets though, even if not always happy. I am fortunate for that.

 

[IC3D]

You don't make money at home and many parents don't have much to spend on their kids. It's not hard to find teenagers dealing openly these days.

 

[Smick]

If this stops one young person from dying then bring it on.

It’s a fairly substantial invasion on civil liberties though.

I’m absolutely distraught about all these killings, but I think that this is a step too far.

I remember working from home one day and some black kids being stopped outside my front window to be searched. I had seen them hanging around, chatting, they seemed like good kids on their way from school. I couldn’t believe how familiar they seemed with the stop and search process, they followed the drill, obviously not the first time.

This is going to need a lot of searches to have any impact on people bringing knives out, to carry out a meaningful level of searching will mean that it won’t be done on the basis of any suspicion, and searching kids just for being kids will lead to them feeling further isolated from society.

I think that this could make everything worse.

 

[dessiato]

It’s a fairly substantial invasion on civil liberties though.

I’m absolutely distraught about all these killings, but I think that this is a step too far.

I remember working from home one day and some black kids being stopped outside my front window to be searched. I had seen them hanging around, chatting, they seemed like good kids on their way from school. I couldn’t believe how familiar they seemed with the stop and search process, they followed the drill, obviously not the first time.

This is going to need a lot of searches to have any impact on people bringing knives out, to carry out a meaningful level of searching will mean that it won’t be done on the basis of any suspicion, and searching kids just for being kids will lead to them feeling further isolated from society.

I think that this could make everything worse.

I hope you're wrong, I fear you're right.

 

[Mr Retro]

I can’t think of an answer to any problem being more (or any) stop and search

 

[19sixtysix]

The kids are paying for the loss of neighbourhood policing caused by the tory austerity.
This a blunt instrument which might lower the levels when its in place but there's not enough cops to keep it up at a level to make a difference.
And if there were enough cops they'd be better placed in the neighbourhood teams.

 

[sparkybird]

Not sure you've grasped the point of stop and search

Can you enlighten me then please? This is a seruuis question

Agree it's a blunt instrument, but what would be an alternative immediate response?

I read last year about this initiative in Scotland
How Scotland reduced knife deaths among young people

 

[Pickman's model]

Can you enlighten me then please? This is a seruuis question

Agree it's a blunt instrument, but what would be an alternative immediate response?

I read last year about this initiative in Scotland
How Scotland reduced knife deaths among young people

Alternative immediate response it's like pissing on people on fire

 

[sparkybird]

Thanks for that. Although if you ever see me on fire, feel free to piss on me if no fire blanket is available.....

 

[ska invita]

Can you enlighten me then please? This is a seruuis question

Agree it's a blunt instrument, but what would be an alternative immediate response?

I read last year about this initiative in Scotland
How Scotland reduced knife deaths among young people

Without this bit though:
" they were offered a way out. “There was help with housing, relocation, employment and training. They were given a number to call if they wanted to take the offer up. Huge numbers of them did so, were put into the programme, and are no longer in the gang lifestyle.”
...its quite likely going to entrench an us v them attitude.

The kids are paying for the loss of neighbourhood policing caused by the tory austerity..

Austerity yes, but im not sure its loss of policing thats the problem, its the loss of everything else thats the problem (as above)

 

[Pickman's model]

Thanks for that. Although if you ever see me on fire, feel free to piss on me if no fire blanket is available.....

You have not engaged brain, which is a pity.

My simile is, I think, apt as it indicates the inadequate response stop and search is under section 60, which insults as it affects to offer a solution. Use of a section 60 like this is, from my observation and experience, a licence to harass black men on the street. Reports yesterday and today show the great number of stabbings that occur right after school. Yet this disproportionate swamp operation covers the entire borough, not just areas round schools or areas young people congregate. It lasts hours after 99% of young people will have gone to bed. This is as much about showing people who's boss as it is a paper exercise which affects to show the police are doing something. What they're doing is alienating young people, and trying to fool people who think an operation like this is in any way a solution to a longstanding and complex set of problems. Few knives, if any, will be off the street and even the paltry number seized can be easily and cheaply replaced. Anyone not killed last night because of this can expect it to be a temporary reprieve. It would be nice if there were immediately effective simple solutions. But there aren't and it is foolish to claim there are.

 

[technical]

Is it possible to introduce the same measure for a much smaller area ie round schools or where young people gather as you suggest? I honestly don't know, but if you did then wouldn't anyone with a knife simply avoid those areas?

 

[IC3D]

Stop and search is an insult to the entire community and not a solution. It's hard to think of many if any other groups targeted in this way.

 

[Pickman's model]

Is it possible to introduce the same measure for a much smaller area ie round schools or where young people gather as you suggest? I honestly don't know, but if you did then wouldn't anyone with a knife simply avoid those areas?

it can be used with more precision - a much narrower area can be drawn, for example within 100 yards of wembley - it doesn't have to be the whole borough. information about s.60 at Stop and search

 

[Gramsci]

Thanks for that. Although if you ever see me on fire, feel free to piss on me if no fire blanket is available.....

So you think stop and search should be brought back permanently?

 

[Gramsci]

This Section 60 is just for show. Its just for a few hours. In policing terms I don't see the point of it.

Given some of the comments here, if they are representative of some of the public, then this token populist gesture has been a success.

What next? Going on some of posts here enforce stay at home curfews on young men.

 

[Gramsci]

I remember first Brixton riots. Resentment against stop and search was factor in why the riot started.