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Labour leadership

weltweit said:
Interesting article about Corbyn and the EU here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ition-future-britain-eu-membership?CMP=twt_gu
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It's not really interesting so much as a continuation of the previous red-baiting. Oh no Corbyn is against the EU (despite saying explicitly he is in favour of staying in) which means he's against stuff that middle-class 'left' liberal Guardistas like... like french cheese, cafés and posh wine and he probably likes racism or something as well as communism!
 
J Ed said:
It's not really interesting so much as a continuation of the previous red-baiting. Oh no Corbyn is against the EU (despite saying explicitly he is in favour of staying in) which means he's against stuff that middle-class 'left' liberal Guardistas like... like french cheese, cafés and posh wine and he probably likes racism or something as well as communism!
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I didn't read it so bleakly, I took more that Corbyn questions the EU for different reasons than Cameron while his competitors for the Labour leadership are simply pro EU without having much principle about it.
 
chilango said:
Thing is, no one is real talking about Social Democracy (hence my thread on it). People are wafting vague "anti-austerity" slogans which ultimately boil down to a bit of tax here, a bit of public spending there and so on. It's not Social Democracy. It's not even standard mainstream Labour fare from the 80s and 90s.

There are no concrete ideas - utopian or realistic - being raised by "the Left" that are caring about Corbyn (or the People's Assembly or any of these schemes).

A genuine examination of (for example) Social Democracy, where it came it from and to realise it today, would at least be interesting and initially credible (certainly more credible than some blind hope in an undefined shift led by Corbyn or Jones or Brand or whatever).

But there's not even that.
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It seems to me that rather than an (anti)politics of hope that intends to negate the existing bourgeois democratic system of representation, the 'left' is now pursuing a politics of consolation and solace. Almost as if they don't want to fundamentally change anything and have actually accepted the logic of the right. I've never been more certain of the left communist criticism against the left bourgeoisie tbh.
 
Its the politics of despair. :(

I can't blame people for getting their hopes up etc and i have in the past and no doubt will in the future. Im not a great authority on these things i mean ive been wrong plenty of times. But what ive seen on the left the last few years is as the situation deteriorates and the numbers of people engaged with far left politics seem to dwindle people on the left just keep putting their hopes in these figureheads whether its russell brand or the labour party or Obama or Tsipras or whoever. And thats no comment on whether these people are good people or sincere or whatever, its just really tragic (and i dont mean pathetic i mean in the classical meaning, that its a tragedy) to watch people get really enthusiastic about something then get disappointed again and again and as a result lose hope that ANYTHING could ever be different or there could be ANY alternative to what we've got now. :(
 
frogwoman said:
Icelandic government continues attacks on workers and unions




http://icelandreview.com/news/2015/07/15/court-sides-administration-strike-law-dispute

More info here

http://icelandreview.com/news/2015/06/15/bhm-bring-suit-against-government
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I may be out of date, and don't really know anything about those situations.

But Iceland has had the following rates of real terms average wages increase since 2011... 2.6%, 2.5%, 1.7%, 3.7%. They have 2.9% unemployment, and their Gini coefficient has dropped from 29.6 in 2008 to 22.7 in 2014.

http://www.statice.is/Statistics/Wages,-income-and-labour-market/Income-distribution
 
J Ed said:
It's not really interesting so much as a continuation of the previous red-baiting. Oh no Corbyn is against the EU (despite saying explicitly he is in favour of staying in) which means he's against stuff that middle-class 'left' liberal Guardistas like... like french cheese, cafés and posh wine and he probably likes racism or something as well as communism!
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Well yeh that guardian milieu can go fuck themselves. Their snobbery and arrogance has contributed hugely to the lack of support for progressive ideas in this country.
 
I'm in no way thinking that corbyn as Labour leader would magically sort everything out, but it'd shake things up significantly.

I'll be surprised if the neoliberal lot don't manage to pull it together to defeat him, but worth a punt.
 
free spirit said:
We as in the UK government are doing austerity voluntarily, the UK hasn't been forced into it by the ECB as Greece, Spain, Ireland etc were.
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OK, so not we, then? It's funny how all states in the EU and beyond have 'voluntarily" decided on a course of fiscal consolidation to reduce the size of the state. You reckon that's 'free will', do you?
 
free spirit said:
I'm in no way thinking that corbyn as Labour leader would magically sort everything out, but it'd shake things up significantly.

I'll be surprised if the neoliberal lot don't manage to pull it together to defeat him, but worth a punt.
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Anything to put the shits up them and bring out the beast. Could be some easy pickings when he is traduced in the media if he can manage to get a point across. Can't see it anyway reckon it will be Cooper if I had to bet. Interesting.
 
brogdale said:
OK, so not we, then? It's funny how all states in the EU and beyond have 'voluntarily" decided on a course of fiscal consolidation to reduce the size of the state. You reckon that's 'free will', do you?
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would you care to pick up the other end of that stick?

My point was simply that we as in the UK are in a different position to that of Greece, Spain, Ireland, France or any other Eurozone country, as we are not beholden to the ECB.

As a country we could simply decide not to implement austerity measures, whereas those countries can't do that because ultimately the ECB can decide to cut off the supply of Euros to their banks, at which point due to fractional reserve banking, they're fucked.

Obviously we're not completely immune to the influence of international capital, but that is a massive difference between the UK and the Eurozone countries, and other than Osbourne, the ECB is currently main international advocate of austerity.
 
free spirit said:
would you care to pick up the other end of that stick?

My point was simply that we as in the UK are in a different position to that of Greece, Spain, Ireland, France or any other Eurozone country, as we are not beholden to the ECB.

As a country we could simply decide not to implement austerity measures, whereas those countries can't do that because ultimately the ECB can decide to cut off the supply of Euros to their banks, at which point due to fractional reserve banking, they're fucked.

Obviously we're not completely immune to the influence of international capital, but that is a massive difference between the UK and the Eurozone countries, and other than Osbourne, the ECB is currently main international advocate of austerity.
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It is true that the UK Treasury is free to do what 'the markets' will accept, whilst the Eurozone states are only free to do what 'the markets' tell the ECB is acceptable.
 
brogdale said:
It is true that the UK Treasury is free to do what 'the markets' will accept, whilst the Eurozone states are only free to do what 'the markets' tell the ECB is acceptable.
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ok, but as a counter example to the austerity narative, the markets are perfectly happy to accept Japanese levels of government spending and debt to gdp ratios. Japanese 10 year bond rates fell from 1.5% in 2008 to 0.4% now, at the same time as government spending has increased by around 10%, and debt to GDP ratios have increased from 175% to 230%.

So the international markets don't actually seem to be too arsed about the austerity narrative when it's a strong country with a strong economy and its own currency.

Japan does of course have a major advantage in that it's a significant net exporter, and hasn't really opened its internal markets up in anything like the way we have.
 
free spirit said:
ok, but as a counter example to the austerity narative, the markets are perfectly happy to accept Japanese levels of government spending and debt to gdp ratios. Japanese 10 year bond rates fell from 1.5% in 2008 to 0.4% now, at the same time as government spending has increased by around 10%, and debt to GDP ratios have increased from 175% to 230%.

So the international markets don't actually seem to be too arsed about the austerity narrative when it's a strong country with a strong economy and its own currency.

Japan does of course have a major advantage in that it's a significant net exporter, and hasn't really opened its internal markets up in anything like the way we have.
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The 'markets' are perfectly happy with debt; it's how they extract £bns from ordinary taxpayers. Why do you think that Osborne has been able to maintain such enormous deficits and debt and see bond yields stay so low?

It's important to realise that 'austerity' or fiscal consolidation is only connected to national debt in that it is used by market compliant regimes as a justification for fincap's small state ideological agenda.
 
brogdale said:
The 'markets' are perfectly happy with debt; it's how they extract £bns from ordinary taxpayers. Why do you think that Osborne has been able to maintain such enormous deficits and debt and see bond yields stay so low?

It's important to realise that 'austerity' or fiscal consolidation is only connected to national debt in that it is used by market compliant regimes as a justification for fincap's small state ideological agenda.
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but as Japan shows the markets will clearly continue to loan money to countries who aren't implementing austerity or that small state agenda as long as they have strong economies and their own currencies, so aren't actually a block to us ending austerity unilaterally.

The markets forcing austerity on countries is one of the austerity advocates myths to justify their imposition of austerity IMO.
 
free spirit said:
but as Japan shows the markets will clearly continue to loan money to countries who aren't implementing austerity or that small state agenda as long as they have strong economies and their own currencies, so aren't actually a block to us ending austerity unilaterally.

The markets forcing austerity on countries is one of the austerity advocates myths to justify their imposition of austerity IMO.
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You might want to check out Japanese fiscal policy throughout the two 'lost decades'.
 
free spirit said:
The markets forcing austerity on countries is one of the austerity advocates myths to justify their imposition of austerity IMO.
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Well yes, I think that's right generally. Nearly all developed world governments are willing collaborators with fincap when it comes to imposing the small-state agenda; in that sense they do perpetuate the myth that they have been compelled (TINA). I suppose that is why so many of us were excited (to varying degrees) to see Syriza attempt to challenge that narrative and bust that myth.
 
Hatchet-man(n) takes the level of panic to a new (threat) level...

There is speculation that 140,000 more activists could be eligible to vote than before the general election - with many of them signing up just to back Jeremy Corbyn.

The Communist Party of Great Britain is among the groups that have urged supporters to join Labour and endorse the Islington North MP. Under new rules, they can pay just £3 and take part in the ballot.

Backbencher John Mann told the Sunday Times the contest was "totally out of control", and insisted acting leader Mrs Harman should step in so that proper checks can be conducted.
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Reds under the bed.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/yvette-cooper-accuses-andy-burnham-supporters-sexism-labour-232313690.html#6FNCTKJ
:eek:
 
brogdale said:
Well yes, I think that's right generally. Nearly all developed world governments are willing collaborators with fincap when it comes to imposing the small-state agenda; in that sense they do perpetuate the myth that they have been compelled (TINA). I suppose that is why so many of us were excited (to varying degrees) to see Syriza attempt to challenge that narrative and bust that myth.
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it is a myth.

There was fuck all compelling the UK to impose austerity, and there remains fuck all compelling it to, just as there's fuck all compelling the ECB to impose it across Europe beyond the idiocy of their founding agreement with its restrictions on government deficit spending levels.

It's just a political choice that was made / continues to be made based on flawed ideology.
 
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