Labour leadership

[butchersapron]

This is our generations battle. With us or against us. I want to build up extra-parliamentary power outside the labour party.

 

[frogwoman]

I really don't understand people who say "good luck to Corbyn but I'm not going to lift a finger to help"

Why should i give money to and join a party i dont agree with???

 

[articul8]

Doesn't what just happened in Greece make you reconsider the utility of electoral politics?

It has limits - I'd never advocate a purely or primarily electoral politics.

 

[articul8]

Why should i give money to and join a party i dont agree with???

to change it?

 

[Wilf]

I'm not giving labour £3. That makes me 27% worse than Harold Shipman.

 

[articul8]

This is our generations battle. With us or against us. I want to build up extra-parliamentary power outside the labour party.

I do. They aren't mutually exclusive

 

[butchersapron]

Why should i give money to and join a party i dont agree with???

Because Tony Blair. Might as well bung the Tories a few quid as well.

 

[frogwoman]

to change it?

Hows that working out?

 

[Fingers]

Anyone who votes for Corbyn is potentially condemning Britain to another ten years of Tory government at least.

And potentially condemning the Tories to some real opposition as opposed to Tory Lite opposition. If I wanted unopposed Tory policies i would have voted Tory.

 

[butchersapron]

I do. They aren't mutually exclusive

Amazing, I bung in a Cameron quote, a bush quote and one of his. He agrees with them all.

 

[articul8]

The Corbyn campaign is a like the Scotland effect but inside the Labour party - it's gathering into a mass movement against austerity and picking up support from thousands of otherwise alienated young people. Not channeling them into dead-end internal Labour politics but challenging the foundations of the power structures

 

[phildwyer]

It has limits - I'd never advocate a purely or primarily electoral politics.

Fair enough, I wouldn't castigate you for getting involved. To me though, the LP is just too soaked in blood to touch these days.

 

[frogwoman]

Im not joining the labour party and giving it £3 just to vote for someone who in my view can change very little within the party let alone outside.

 

[butchersapron]

It's like Milhouse demanding money from you isn't it?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

The Corbyn campaign is a like the Scotland effect but inside the Labour party

I hear you like Scotland so much that I put Scotland inside your Labour Party...

 

[articul8]

Fair enough, I wouldn't castigate you for getting involved. To me though, the LP is just too soaked in blood to touch these days.

it's been soaked in blood from an early stage - always committed to imperialism. That's not true of all activists though

 

[Wilf]

By the way artic, you condemn people for not being willing to give your party £3, whereas you, presumably, are giving the party £46.50* - the party that has just voted for the welfare bill. The bill that will kill people. You are actively supporting that.

* what looks to be the full membership cost

 

[articul8]

Some people really don't want to see a radical Left leadership of the party - they want to confirm their own ideological purity on the sidelines whilst working class people despair

 

[articul8]

By the way artic, you condemn people for not being willing to give your party £3, whereas you, presumably, are giving the party £46.50* - the party that has just voted for the welfare bill. The bill that will kill people. You are actively supporting that.

* what looks to be the full membership cost

It didn't vote for the Welfare Bill - factually inaccurate.

 

[frogwoman]

So why should i join a party thats soaked in blood and supports imperialism?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

It didn't vote for the Welfare Bill - factually inaccurate.

Could have defeated it, but chose not to. Is that better?

 

[articul8]

Could have defeated it, but chose not to. Is that better?

How could it have defeated it?

 

[frogwoman]

I give up

 

[andysays]

Some people really don't want to see a radical Left leadership of the party - they want to confirm their own ideological purity on the sidelines whilst working class people despair

Some people don't believe that Corbyn would really represent a true radical Left leadership and/or don't believe that such a thing would make a significant difference to the despair many working class people are feeling.

But that's coz we support Tony Blair, innit

 

[Fozzie Bear]

How could it have defeated it?

By voting against it and encouraging others to do so?

 

[articul8]

So why should i join a party thats soaked in blood and supports imperialism?

because it's also a party which historically has won mass support from working class people, and provides the best basis for re-engaging millions of people with socialist ideas, with a hard left anti-imperialist core that can develop out of it.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Not. at. all. Who are you supporting? Burnham? Cooper? Kendall?!!!

Burnham.

Please explain what programme Corbyn and his chums will present for winning power in 2020 - which is the only reason the party - any large party - exists.

 

[articul8]

By voting against it and encouraging others to do so?

Encouraging Tories to vote against their own Bill? Now who's being naive? (I think they ought to have voted against 2nd reading, but let's not pretend it's what would have stopped it stone dead).

 

[frogwoman]

because it's also a party which historically has won mass support from working class people, and provides the best basis for re-engaging millions of people with socialist ideas, with a hard left anti-imperialist core that can develop out of it.

I disagree

 

[articul8]

Burnham

who abstained on the Welfare Bill? Is coming out with anti-immigration rhetoric? Who supports the benefit cap? Who is on the board of Progress? Nah, he's blown it.