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Labour leadership

JHE said:
No, of course there isn't. Oppositions oppose. On losing an election a party does not suddenly become committed to its opponents' manifesto. (Though, come to think of it, some current Labour leaders may need reminding of this.)

There is a convention that the House of Lords does not reject a measure passed by the House of Commons if that measure was a manifesto commitment.
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Ah, right. That thing about the Lords must be what I was misremembering, thanks for clarifying, I had a hazy memory of something to do with parliamentary convention and manifesto commitments getting a free pass, as it were, but it was late, I was tired, and I wasn't inclined to research and confirm the details, which I should've done really, although I did say it was off the top of my head and I'd happily stand corrected if wrong. So fair enough, thank you.
 
Wilf said:
If the £3 went to charity... and I could do it anonymously..... and they provided a false beard and specs, just to be sure....
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If you feel you can't hold your nose and hand over £3 to become a Labour supporter, you could always join a union and get a vote that way. And for those who aren't in employment/don't have a relevant union to join, there's Unite community section, which is open to unemployed, claimants etc.
 
Blair to potential Corbyn supporters; 'people who say their heart is with Corbyn, get a transplant'. Or more bluntly just rip it out! There must be a good poster opportunity there somewhere.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
ViolentPanda said:
What they really need is Healy to open his cavernous gob...
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No, not Healy the man who went to the IMF for a loan, acting on false information from the Treasury - we didn't need it it turns out. He gave a weapon to the Tory press with that and unwittingly became the first monetarist chancellor by so doing. Callaghan made things worse by saying "you can't spend your way out of a recession" but of course that is the very thing you need to do. This is where the Labour Party lost its way.
 
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I've just been washing up and thinking about Blair's heart transplant comment...and it says so much. This is his aspiration - a society that cannot trust its own emotions, a society that must not respond to the tug of its own heart strings - because that is what he has done in and to his life; he has studiously expunged real feelings and replaced them with acting...performing emotion for the camera, the interviewer, the press conference. So his attack on Corbyn and his supporters is in part at least, the very thing that the old, hard, trad left is accused of; its the politics of envy...a very personal and bitter envy.

Better dry up now - Louis MacNeice
 
Jones may be a liberal bubble dick but he does do a decent job pointing out the weird situation of Blair and his fellows are dismantling one of the very policies they always trumpeted
But tax credits are a lifeline for millions of low-paid workers, helping to bridge the gap between low wages and the reality of existence. Many of the self-employed entrepreneurs championed by New Labour are affected too. This month the Tories introduced a budget that scaled them back. Labour’s response? To abstain, and back withdrawing tax credits from any supermarket worker’s child who might have two siblings rather than one. This is an act of vandalism perpetrated on New Labour’s legacy: and it was the left that opposed it.
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Whenever they were criticised for increasing inequality New Labourites would also bring out the reduction in child poverty, now they don't even want to defend that.
 
Louis MacNeice said:
I've just been washing up and thinking about Blair's heart transplant comment...and it says so much. This is his aspiration - a society that cannot trust its own emotions, a society that must not respond to the tug of its own heart strings - because that is what he has done in and to his life; he has studiously expunged real feelings and replaced them with acting...performing emotion for the camera, the interviewer, the press conference. So his attack on Corbyn and his supporters is in part at least, the very thing that the old, hard, trad left is accused of; its the politics of envy...a very personal and bitter envy.

Better dry up now - Louis MacNeice
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Whereas Blair's politics is the politics of entry, entry into Tory values and taking his party with him.
 
I had this thought this evening - it might not be true, but it could be: maybe what we're seeing here is a generational political shift.

Neoliberal policies of the last however many decades have been slowly pulling the ladder away from the young, to the benefit of the old, and that process has seriously accelerated post 2008 crash. The Tories have been wooing older voters effortlessly, and fucking over younger voters without much of a care. There's an aging population out there, and particularly the property owning parts of that population are understood as key to winning elections.

Obviously many of the Blair generation Labour Party politicians are utterly down with the logic of Tory policies and see no problem in aping that strategy. But this next generation - lets say 30 and under, though it could be older than that even - are the ones who are most fucked over by the current state of affairs in the UK, and they're the ones who when they look to see what the rest of their lives might hold, dont see much of anything to look forward to. Maybe that is starting to bed in and become a cultural force.

What I wonder is if we're seeing something that looks like the breaking of the arctic ice shelf, with the richer, older generation breaking off (tories and blairites in tow), leaving behind a new generation with no one to represent them, and crucially with a growing consciousness of just how shit their lot is.

In regards to the Jeremy Corbyn phenomenon there are some impressive stats out there that show that there are significant proportion of young voters who have singed up recently and are supporting him, and that likewise younger MPs are also more likely to support him than that Blair generation. (I cant link to those stats now, but Ive definitely seen things written along those lines).

Just maybe we are seeing a generational shift to the left here! The fact is the current global economic post-crash mainstream concensus cannot deal with giving young people the living standards that their parents might have had - one thing I think is correct from the Paul Mason book exert floating about is this:

"Even now many people fail to grasp the true meaning of the word “austerity”. Austerity is not eight years of spending cuts, as in the UK, or even the social catastrophe inflicted on Greece. It means driving the wages, social wages and living standards in the west down for decades until they meet those of the middle class in China and India on the way up."

The younger generation may or may not grasp it - but they're certainly feeling it. And maybe Jeremy C is genuinely appealing to them, with no baggage, and no reason to doubt.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
If you feel you can't hold your nose and hand over £3 to become a Labour supporter, you could always join a union and get a vote that way. And for those who aren't in employment/don't have a relevant union to join, there's Unite community section, which is open to unemployed, claimants etc.
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Unite Community members get a vote, are you sure?
 
Louis MacNeice said:
I've just been washing up and thinking about Blair's heart transplant comment...and it says so much. This is his aspiration - a society that cannot trust its own emotions, a society that must not respond to the tug of its own heart strings - because that is what he has done in and to his life; he has studiously expunged real feelings and replaced them with acting...performing emotion for the camera, the interviewer, the press conference. So his attack on Corbyn and his supporters is in part at least, the very thing that the old, hard, trad left is accused of; its the politics of envy...a very personal and bitter envy.

Better dry up now - Louis MacNeice
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You should write an essay on Blair, you have nailed him there.
 
ska invita said:
I had this thought this evening - it might not be true, but it could be: maybe what we're seeing here is a generational political shift.

Neoliberal policies of the last however many decades have been slowly pulling the ladder away from the young, to the benefit of the old, and that process has seriously accelerated post 2008 crash. The Tories have been wooing older voters effortlessly, and fucking over younger voters without much of a care. There's an aging population out there, and particularly the property owning parts of that population are understood as key to winning elections.

Obviously many of the Blair generation Labour Party politicians are utterly down with the logic of Tory policies and see no problem in aping that strategy. But this next generation - lets say 30 and under, though it could be older than that even - are the ones who are most fucked over by the current state of affairs in the UK, and they're the ones who when they look to see what the rest of their lives might hold, dont see much of anything to look forward to. Maybe that is starting to bed in and become a cultural force.

What I wonder is if we're seeing something that looks like the breaking of the arctic ice shelf, with the richer, older generation breaking off (tories and blairites in tow), leaving behind a new generation with no one to represent them, and crucially with a growing consciousness of just how shit their lot is.

In regards to the Jeremy Corbyn phenomenon there are some impressive stats out there that show that there are significant proportion of young voters who have singed up recently and are supporting him, and that likewise younger MPs are also more likely to support him than that Blair generation. (I cant link to those stats now, but Ive definitely seen things written along those lines).

Just maybe we are seeing a generational shift to the left here! The fact is the current global economic post-crash mainstream concensus cannot deal with giving young people the living standards that their parents might have had - one thing I think is correct from the Paul Mason book exert floating about is this:

"Even now many people fail to grasp the true meaning of the word “austerity”. Austerity is not eight years of spending cuts, as in the UK, or even the social catastrophe inflicted on Greece. It means driving the wages, social wages and living standards in the west down for decades until they meet those of the middle class in China and India on the way up."

The younger generation may or may not grasp it - but they're certainly feeling it. And maybe Jeremy C is genuinely appealing to them, with no baggage, and no reason to doubt.
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Most of the new members who are joining labour are under 30, I do hope its not the 30 year cycle though and they end up Blairites or disillusioned.

I was also talking tonight to a guy who has two politically minded offspring, he said they were nervous about getting on the streets after what happened to the student movement and worried whether their minimum wage jobs would be at risk if there bosses found out!
 
Burnham said he would serve under Corbyn, arguing: “It was really important that the party came out of the election united. We are not going to get anywhere by running factional politics
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fair do's.


Blair had provoked Corbyn by telling the Progress centre-left thinktank that people whose heart was with the leftwing candidate should “get a transplant”. In his first intervention in the Labour leadership election, the former prime minister said the party will never win with a traditional left platform, saying it will instead endure four election defeats in a row.

Blair had provoked Corbyn by telling the Progress centre-left thinktank that people whose heart was with the leftwing candidate should “get a transplant”. In his first intervention in the Labour leadership election, the former prime minister said the party will never win with a traditional left platform, saying it will instead endure four election defeats in a row.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-lose-frontbenchers-if-elected-labour-leader
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Wintour in the Guardian, in what world is Progress 'centre left', this is what Corbyn is challenging, Journos like Wintour and Rentoul are also part of the problem, we need another Orwell, Nick Cohen can't do it anymore..
 
ska invita said:
2nd preference stats

Burham's: 52% to Cooper, 26% to Corbyn, 10% to Kendall
Cooper's: 44% to Burnham, 22% to Corbyn, 15% to Kendall
Kendall's: 55% to Cooper, 22% to Burnham, 6% to Corbyn
Corbyn's: 26% to Cooper, 40% to Burnham, 5% to Kendall
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interesting to see that none of the above is 2nd choice for corbyn's supporters on 2nd preference votes.
 
ska invita said:
I had this thought this evening - it might not be true, but it could be: maybe what we're seeing here is a generational political shift.

Neoliberal policies of the last however many decades have been slowly pulling the ladder away from the young, to the benefit of the old, and that process has seriously accelerated post 2008 crash. The Tories have been wooing older voters effortlessly, and fucking over younger voters without much of a care. There's an aging population out there, and particularly the property owning parts of that population are understood as key to winning elections.

Obviously many of the Blair generation Labour Party politicians are utterly down with the logic of Tory policies and see no problem in aping that strategy. But this next generation - lets say 30 and under, though it could be older than that even - are the ones who are most fucked over by the current state of affairs in the UK, and they're the ones who when they look to see what the rest of their lives might hold, dont see much of anything to look forward to. Maybe that is starting to bed in and become a cultural force.

What I wonder is if we're seeing something that looks like the breaking of the arctic ice shelf, with the richer, older generation breaking off (tories and blairites in tow), leaving behind a new generation with no one to represent them, and crucially with a growing consciousness of just how shit their lot is.

In regards to the Jeremy Corbyn phenomenon there are some impressive stats out there that show that there are significant proportion of young voters who have singed up recently and are supporting him, and that likewise younger MPs are also more likely to support him than that Blair generation. (I cant link to those stats now, but Ive definitely seen things written along those lines).

Just maybe we are seeing a generational shift to the left here! The fact is the current global economic post-crash mainstream concensus cannot deal with giving young people the living standards that their parents might have had - one thing I think is correct from the Paul Mason book exert floating about is this:

"Even now many people fail to grasp the true meaning of the word “austerity”. Austerity is not eight years of spending cuts, as in the UK, or even the social catastrophe inflicted on Greece. It means driving the wages, social wages and living standards in the west down for decades until they meet those of the middle class in China and India on the way up."

The younger generation may or may not grasp it - but they're certainly feeling it. And maybe Jeremy C is genuinely appealing to them, with no baggage, and no reason to doubt.
Click to expand...
The young (and the poor) vote overwhelmingly for labour (or not at all - There was an 8% drop in turnout between 2010 and 2015 for male 18-24s). If the labour party were able to convince those who've dropped out that they've something to offer them then there's little need to chase the swing votes too hard. Plus, theyre all voting tory now anyway...
 
ska invita said:
I had this thought this evening - it might not be true, but it could be: maybe what we're seeing here is a generational political shift.

Neoliberal policies of the last however many decades have been slowly pulling the ladder away from the young, to the benefit of the old, and that process has seriously accelerated post 2008 crash. The Tories have been wooing older voters effortlessly, and fucking over younger voters without much of a care. There's an aging population out there, and particularly the property owning parts of that population are understood as key to winning elections.

Obviously many of the Blair generation Labour Party politicians are utterly down with the logic of Tory policies and see no problem in aping that strategy. But this next generation - lets say 30 and under, though it could be older than that even - are the ones who are most fucked over by the current state of affairs in the UK, and they're the ones who when they look to see what the rest of their lives might hold, dont see much of anything to look forward to. Maybe that is starting to bed in and become a cultural force.

What I wonder is if we're seeing something that looks like the breaking of the arctic ice shelf, with the richer, older generation breaking off (tories and blairites in tow), leaving behind a new generation with no one to represent them, and crucially with a growing consciousness of just how shit their lot is.

In regards to the Jeremy Corbyn phenomenon there are some impressive stats out there that show that there are significant proportion of young voters who have singed up recently and are supporting him, and that likewise younger MPs are also more likely to support him than that Blair generation. (I cant link to those stats now, but Ive definitely seen things written along those lines).

Just maybe we are seeing a generational shift to the left here! The fact is the current global economic post-crash mainstream concensus cannot deal with giving young people the living standards that their parents might have had - one thing I think is correct from the Paul Mason book exert floating about is this:

"Even now many people fail to grasp the true meaning of the word “austerity”. Austerity is not eight years of spending cuts, as in the UK, or even the social catastrophe inflicted on Greece. It means driving the wages, social wages and living standards in the west down for decades until they meet those of the middle class in China and India on the way up."

The younger generation may or may not grasp it - but they're certainly feeling it. And maybe Jeremy C is genuinely appealing to them, with no baggage, and no reason to doubt.
Click to expand...


What Tony Blair never seems to understand is how devastating his term of office was to Generation Y. Most of my generation, even those in professional jobs, cannot afford to buy a house; they are saddled with student debt and most of the available work is low paid and insecure. For someone I remember in my youth as the most astute politician of his age, he has become unrealistic about the extent to which Labour can take votes from 'lefties' for granted and reactionary to criticism of his social democratic place on the political spectrum which ended in failure in 1979 and 2010. He talks about values but there were scant evidence of those by the time he lied to Parliament and supported the invasion of Iraq and the standard of living for ordinary working people, especially the young, entered a decline as early as 2003.

Labour doesn't have the luxury that Blair did of being able to move the party to the centre ground without losing much support from the left. The drift of the left to other parties began in 2001 but only really gathered pace in 2015 with the SNP and the Green surge. Any attempt by Labour now to occupy the same ground as Osborne will lose more votes from the left than they can hope to gain from the right. Kendall, in my view, is far less electable than Corbyn for this reason.

The next Labour leader has to be a lot smarter and policy driven than Blair, who has never managed to get further than discussing the left, right and centre, which is naïve politics. People don't vote for centrists, they vote for their interests which will be left, right and centre! If Blair wants to be part of the debate, then he needs to stop making straw man arguments and get to grips with policy and finally show the public there is some substance to his politics. Let's not talk about left and right, let's talk about the housing crisis that began during his term of office and the deregulation that missed the looming financial crisis.

Let's talk about the alienation of white working class Britain that has driven them into the arms of the racist UKIP and how we can kick start multiculturalism on everyone's terms. Or how we can invest in Britain to create meaningful work and boost productivity.

I trust Corbyn to engage in that debate and go back to the Labour tradition of policy making by debate. Labour will only go leftwards in accordance of the wishes of the party, whilst Blair would stand still trying to claim his electorally successful but disastrous politics still have any relevance today.
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Someone on CIF has replied to your post, its uncanny
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-MPs-who-backed-Jeremy-Corbyn-desert-him.html

One aide to a rival candidate said: “This is too little too late. These Labour MPs don’t realise they are were supposed to be gate keepers.
“Their role was to determine the candidate selection – their vote is now just one of over 300,000 members and supporters.”


Mr Corbyn's 43% seems to have gone down like cold sick with the Parliamentary Labour party
 
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Is Mr Corbyn extreme left?
I have only felt relief that he is in the running.

If he is in front what exactly does that mean to them?

Do the other members in the party think the Tories need help pulling the front runner to bits?
 
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