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Labour leadership

You've just said they can't win from the left but they can win from the left. And that thinking they can win from the left is insane.

It's the labour part not the left part that's the problem.

If you mean better distribution of wealth, better regulation and better services, yes, people will vote for that.

They are mistrustful of anything further that appears like an ideology or a project. A progressive party would need to let the demand for a more radical reshaping of the world grow itself.
 
If you mean better distribution of wealth, better regulation and better services, yes, people will vote for that.

They are mistrustful of anything further that appears like an ideology or a project. A progressive party would need to let the demand for a more radical reshaping of the world grow itself.
You're just using progressive for left. So labour can win from the left if the leftism is packaged differently?
 
"Stop picking on business, start picking on benefits scum" leftism.

Also: I vote Labour and have bigoted and right-wing views about the working-class and support an aggressive foreign policy but I'm sick of EXTREMISTS being mean to me and calling me right-wing. I have lost invites to DINNER PARTIES over this.
 
Also: I vote Labour and have bigoted and right-wing views about the working-class and support an aggressive foreign policy but I'm sick of EXTREMISTS being mean to me and calling me right-wing. I have lost invites to DINNER PARTIES over this.

Hmm queasy self regarding satire, but indicative. You can't characterise every disagreement as hysterically reactionary or elite.
 
If you mean better distribution of wealth, better regulation and better services, yes, people will vote for that.

They are mistrustful of anything further that appears like an ideology or a project. A progressive party would need to let the demand for a more radical reshaping of the world grow itself.

So, the Tories don't have an ideology?, when they appear to using direct the 'Chicago Boys' Chile economics handbook, you remind me of the saying, "my family aren't political, we always vote Conservative"
 
So, the Tories don't have an ideology?, when they appear to using direct the 'Chicago Boys' Chile economics handbook, you remind me of the saying, "my family aren't political, we always vote Conservative"

Der, of course they do. What a daft post.

It seems the electorate don't care for Labour aping the Tories ideology either.
 
:D

I may well have missed something, but is there an actual possibility that the above will happen? -- the Burnham reassigning 20 or so nominations to Corbyn thing I mean.

(Not disputing these posts as analysis -- just adding a factual question though)

Wouldn't be the first time something similar has happened
On 20 May 2010 [Diane] Abbott announced her intention to stand in the Labour leadership contest. She secured the necessary 33 nominations by 9 June, assisted by the withdrawal of fellow left-wing candidate John McDonnell and unexpected support from fellow candidate David Miliband.
 
How left is left enough to make electoral catnip for you all? Leave NATO? Abolish the Royal Family and private education? Stop all arms sales? Renationalise BT? Wealth tax at 80%? Twin more councils with Havana?

There are lots of things many of us believe in, but this about getting elected. What left wing ideas will capture the imagination of a hawkish and disillusioned electorate?
 
How left is left enough to make electoral catnip for you all? Leave NATO? Abolish the Royal Family and private education? Stop all arms sales? Renationalise BT? Wealth tax at 80%? Twin more councils with Havana?

There are lots of things many of us believe in, but this about getting elected. What left wing ideas will capture the imagination of a hawkish and disillusioned electorate?

Simply not going any further than they already have along the road of neo-liberal austerity, demonising of the poor and needy, tearing the guts out of the welfare state so that the already-rich can become even richer etc etc would be better than what they are doing ATM.

Not sure I would describe it as "left-wing", although it's apparently too left wing for those at the top of the party with genuine aspirations to be leader.
 
I'm just sorry you can't keep up.

well, I pointed out that claiming you can't win an election from the left by people haven't tried in my lifetime was bit wtf- you responded that it can't be done then went on to point to the snp success with its anti austerity ticket. So I'm confused. Again
 
well, I pointed out that claiming you can't win an election from the left by people haven't tried in my lifetime was bit wtf- you responded that it can't be done then went on to point to the snp success with its anti austerity ticket. So I'm confused. Again

The SNP are progressive in many ways, but they are not left. All I'm saying is that whilst people will vote for more fair distribution, a tight rein on the financial sector and better services (and less aggressive foreign policy) they won't in droves vote for a bigger leftist agenda any more than they would in the 1980's with Kinnock's manifestos. Doesn't mean there isn't good work for a Labour Govt to do and certainly doesn't mean they should go markedly to the right.
 
William of Walworth said:
Thanks. That's interesting, but those two [NE Lab MPs] appear? to be switching of their own accord (?) -- and I suppose a few more could easily follow. I was more interested though in whether Burnham was ever going to engineer some transfers ...

They're not going to openly say that they are part of an engineered plan by the labour party to make it look like there is a real existing left within it and that Burnham is part of it.

True -- I nearly added a sentence roughly to that effect this morning -- such a thing couldn't be a publicly advertised project. Had just been wondering what was really happening.
 
Here's the pearls before swine that the ex Cranfield "school of management" lecturer penned for the Guradian...

Picking fights with business doomed Labour to defeat
Mary Creagh

:facepalm:

When did they pick any fights with business? I must've missed that. Maybe they're talking about the zero hour contract thing, but even with that they were careful to come up with a policy riddled with loopholes you could drive a bus through. I can't think of any other issue where they've even remotely stood up to business. They weren't even threatening a token rise in the minimum wage.
 
Miliband said he wasn't scared of Murdoch once, tiny temporary freeze on household bills, resistance to zero-hours contracts - FULL COMMUNISM.

That was literally everything wasn't it?
 
When did they pick any fights with business? I must've missed that. Maybe they're talking about the zero hour contract thing, but even with that they were careful to come up with a policy riddled with loopholes you could drive a bus through. I can't think of any other issue where they've even remotely stood up to business. They weren't even threatening a token rise in the minimum wage.

I read that and thought the same.

It's like Miliband had threatened to reintroduce Clause 4!
 
Miliband said he wasn't scared of Murdoch once, tiny temporary freeze on household bills, resistance to zero-hours contracts - FULL COMMUNISM.

That was literally everything wasn't it?

There was also talk of closing the non-dom loophole but that's not so much affecting business in general as a handful of tycoons. Although I'm sure the tycoons would like to spin it otherwise.

Oddly enough, all the newspapers owned by non-doms came out in support of the tories at the GE, even the quote unquote Independent.
 
Despite everything, I still think the Labour Party is the only game in town if you think parliamentary politics is worth bothering with at all (I can sympathise with those who say it isn't, tbf. And certainly, either way, it is not the be all and end all). There was obviously some shifts in local parties over the last few years when you look at some of the candidates that got selected and then won, ie Kate Osamor replacing arch Blarite Andy Love in Edmonton. And most of the Japanese holdouts aka McDonnell, Hopkins and Corbyn retained their seats. Often with increased majorities that bucked the national and even local trend. As for the left of Labour alternatives, there is either nothing to stop them going the same way as Labour under the same pressure (the Greens, Left Unity) or just ending up being tightly controlled by democratic centralist parties who still take their cue from the 1917 failed experiment. The only thing that might work would be the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell leading a parliamentary split taking the trade unions with them etc. The arguments against that are fairly well worn though. From a parliamentary perspective, it is bleak outside, it is bleak inside... take your pick!
 
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