Labour leadership

[marty21]

it is strange that a Labour party which needs to increase the Labour vote is rejecting membership applications from people who want to vote for Labour meaning they are less likely to vote for Labour after being rejected for membership

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

There would be no chance of Labour being elected with Corbyn as leader, for the simple reason that a majority of the working class, let alone the electorate does not support what he stands for (as opposed to selected bits of what he stands for), and the inevitable media campaign against him.

You can't know that without him being put to the test in an election. The massive drop in voter turn-out during the whole of the New Labour period is certainly an indication that there is a disaffected section of the electorate who found what was on offer completely unappealing.

I'm still enjoying him pissing off the Blairites, though.

It is rather good, isn't it.

 

[Reg Folder]

There would be no chance of Labour being elected with Corbyn as leader, for the simple reason that a majority of the working class, let alone the electorate does not support what he stands for (as opposed to supporting selected bits of what he stands for), and the inevitable media campaign against him. He's too unrelaibel to be allowed to

I'm still enjoying him pissing off the Blairites, though.

You can't know that without him being put to the test in an election. The massive drop in voter turn-out during the whole of the New Labour period is certainly an indication that there is a disaffected section of the electorate who found what was on offer completely unappealing.



It is rather good, isn't it.

I can't know that, that's true. But I do think that would be the outcome.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Is the spirit of the country more aligned with the Tories or Labour?

Clue - we've recently had a vote on this...

There isn't a spirit of the country singular. Trying to assert one is to ignore the fragmented needs and desires of the variety of people who live in the four different countries of the UK*; the fragmented needs and desires as represented in part by the votes casts and not cast at the last election.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

*Other divisions in society are also available.

 

[Diamond]

The bizarre thing is that if you run the argument the other way you get to the point where a Corbyn led Labour party would need to gain an absolute majority to have a legitimate claim to represent the "spirit of the country" through their electoral mandate...

 

[agricola]

Some more of the purged speak:

Jason Cobb, a website editor from south London, has blogged on his bemusement at being rejected.

“I’ve never campaigned against the Labour party, I’ve never been a member of any other party. I know some people have been kicked out before, like Mark Steel, but it seems there’s been a whole mass mail-out overnight. My email arrived at 2am.”

Cobb suspects his name was struck off after he attracted the ire of a local Lambeth councillor Alex Bigham after he reported on Bingham’s decision to post a petition calling for the leadership race to be halted.

“My one vote isn’t going to change anything at all, but I think it’s very petty.”

Cobb’s local MP, Kate Hoey, said: “Jason is exactly the kind of person on we need in the Labour party. I want to place on record my deep concern at his exclusion and believe that it should be challenged.”

 

[Lucy Fur]

I think this is part of the problem - with the development of social media, online fora, and the general disintermediation of media, allowing people to discriminate more particularly in what they see and hear, one's social universe becomes increasingly smaller and more polarised.

To think that there are lots of leftwing folk that didn't vote last time around and that's why Labour lost and that if Labour would only just become more leftwing then they would flock to the polling booths and disrupt the next election to carry Corbyn to victory - maybe that makes sense if you spend most of your time talking to likeminded people and ignore, even shout down (as seems to be happening here) people who might hold a marginally different view, that's fine but it just is not very convincing.

As ever your response has nothing to do with what I said. I simply stated yes there is a bloc of leftwing supporters who will find it may be possible to start to support the Labour party again. I made no suggestion that it would be enough for a Corbyn led labour victory.

 

[gosub]

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10766/andy_burnham/leigh/votes
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10131/yvette_cooper/normanton,_pontefract_and_castleford/votes
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/votes
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24816/liz_kendall/leicester_west/votes

Going by that, is a bit people's front of Judea

 

[rutabowa]

I can't know that, that's true. But I do think that would be the outcome.

That's why we have to have actual elections; because noone can know.

 

[Diamond]

Bloody hell - what a cock up!

If Labour won't uphold it's own reformed constitution for the leadership election and it also elects Corbyn, the party will be totally sunk.

Rip up ballot papers and you look at best irresponsible and at worst tyrannical and oppressive.

Elect Corbyn and you make a protest stand with a bunch of policies that will never get you in to power.

To think what would happen if Labour do both!

 

[Teaboy]

So is it beginning to look like a purge of potential Corbyn supporters?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

The bizarre thing is that if you run the argument the other way you get to the point where a Corbyn led Labour party would need to gain an absolute majority to have a legitimate claim to represent the "spirit of the country" through their electoral mandate...

Why is that bizzare? Even if a Corbyn led Labour Party secured the votes of 52% of the available electorate, it still wouldn't mean that it represented the spirit of the country; it would represent some of the desires of those 52% of voters. Just to repeat there is no singular 'spirit of the country'; claims to represent it are at best spurious and at worst very dangerous.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[DotCommunist]

So is it beginning to look like a purge of potential Corbyn supporters?

yes, or as I call it when people rig elections: Shennanigans

 

[Lucy Fur]

That's why we have to have actual elections; because noone can know.

Elect Corbyn and you make a protest stand with a bunch of policies that will never get you in to power.

Diamond knows...

 

[DotCommunist]

if its a proper purge theres going to be a lot of suprised and angry three quidders. Whose running this shambles ffs, Jim Murphy?

 

[danny la rouge]

He did support the yes campaign for Scotland didn't he?

It was rumoured that he was going to, but in the end he didn't. Not publicly at least.

 

[Sprocket.]

The Labour Party could sell t-shirts at the next conference with.

I paid £3 and all I got was this Liz Kendall/ Yvette Cooper/ Andy Burnham! (Delete as appropriate)

 

[nino_savatte]

Let the purge begin! Stand by for an election so rigged that it would make the elections of the old Cold War east look democratic by comparison.
https://opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/michael-chessum/great-labour-purge-is-underway

 

[ruffneck23]

http://newsthump.com/2015/08/20/labour-leadership-election-to-be-won-with-seven-votes/

 

[nino_savatte]

Kim Jong-Il for Labour [dear] leader!

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm enjoying the purge. It's good fun watching Labour knock lumps out of itself again. An added bonus is that today is the 75th anniversary of Lev's cranial adjustment therapy.

 

[DotCommunist]

I mean, lets have it right. Any large party is going to have voices of critiscism and dissent within its own ranks- that includes MPs as well, the whip can be occaisonly defied (unless he's got those pics of you with a 12 year old or something). Mildly critiscising on social media is not 'running contrary to the aims and values' or whatever the wording of the statement is Harman has decided empowers her to demand slavish loyalty like some tinpot stalin

 

[two sheds]

Gives Corbyn the perfect reason for a Stalinist purge to make the party more accountable and democratic if he gets in.

 

[Reg Folder]

That's why we have to have actual elections; because noone can know.

Hardly difficult to predict the kind of outcome I referred to, though, is it?

 

[Reg Folder]

Why is that bizzare? Even if a Corbyn led Labour Party secured the votes of 52% of the available electorate, it still wouldn't mean that it represented the spirit of the country; it would represent some of the desires of those 52% of voters. Just to repeat there is no singular 'spirit of the country'; claims to represent it are at best spurious and at worst very dangerous.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

More than that; there isn't any 'spirit' at all.

 

[DotCommunist]

More than that; there isn't any 'spirit' at all.

single malt maybe

 

[Reg Folder]

single malt maybe

More like pissy contraband vodka.

 

[Wilf]

Anyway, I assume this is the "mood music" for the eventual legal challenge (and stitch-up) that will follow a Corby win?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-ignored-legal-membership?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Party lawyers had supported an extra stage of verification in order to protect Labour against a legal challenge by unsuccessful candidates, saying this would put the party in a good position to say its election process had been “robust”.

Under the legal advice, people known to have voted for other parties according to Labour canvass returns would have been asked to confirm again that they really did support its aims and values. But the party’s procedure committee voted to take no action.

according to leaked meeting notes obtained by the Guardian.

Random person stole into the office, made off with the notes? Disgruntled employee? Yeah, surely.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Hardly difficult to predict the kind of outcome I referred to, though, is it?

No-one predicted that Corbyn would do this well in the leadership contest. Predictions have a habbit of being wrong.

 

[rutabowa]

Hardly difficult to predict the kind of outcome I referred to, though, is it?

err I don't know. again, that's why we actually hold elections, rather than just letting knowledgeable people guess at what everyone thinks and decide on their behalf.