It's all very bizarrea friend of mine has just posted on Facebook, that he registered to join the labour party, to vote for Jeremy Corbyn, but has just has an email from Labour saying they dont believe he is a labour supporter , im going to ask him to post up the email to prve its true, but has anyone else experienced this?
No, a simple majority of people who voted in the UK wanted a Tory government. Not 'the' majority of voters in the UK. The majority of people who voted (i.e more than 50%) did not vote for a tory government. The only things you can say with certainty are these:
The Tories have a simple majority.
37% of people who voted voted for the Tories.
25% of the electorate voted for the Tories.
The only things you can infer from that would be along the lines of:
75% of the electorate did not vote for the Tories.
37% of those who voted are likely to have wanted a Tory government.
You cannot infer the following:
Only those that voted are 'political' (whatever the fuck you mean by that).
Those that voted are 'political' (whatever the fuck you mean by that).
Members of the electorate who did not vote 'didn't give two shits which government got in' (possibly unless you mean 'didn't give a shit which of the two main parties got in').
It's all very bizarre
Labour asking people who join if they are actually supporters? They set the system up, encouraged the 3 quidders and now are changing the goal posts.
Oh, and, it's also worth adding - how does this line of reasoning lead to a Labour victory under Corbyn?
So, just to be clear, any electoral victory that does not lead to an absolute majority of the total electorate for one party is suspect?
So, just to be clear, any electoral victory that does not lead to an absolute majority of the total electorate for one party is suspect?
Labour supporters who have joined the party to vote in the leadership election are being barred from voting, accusing the party of "McCarthyite" purges, Channel 4 News has learned.
..
The majority will of votes cast (the popular vote) voted in the Tories, ergo the majority will of the voters of the UK wanted a Tory government.
You can try and ignore that all you want with perverse arguments around those who did not care to vote, who effectively didn't give two shits about which government that got in, but to try and pretend that the Tory victory was somehow illegitimate or not indicative of the current spirit of the country is totally absurd.
The way I see it, a Corbyn leadership may lose votes from swing voters, but it will also pick votes up from people on the left of the spectrum who previously had given up on voting at all. The question is really which of those two groups of voters is largest. I don't know the answer to that.
It's all very bizarre
Labour asking people who join if they are actually supporters? They set the system up, encouraged the 3 quidders and now are changing the goal posts.
Anyway, I assume this is the "mood music" for the eventual legal challenge (and stitch-up) that will follow a Corby win?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-ignored-legal-membership?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
Party lawyers had supported an extra stage of verification in order to protect Labour against a legal challenge by unsuccessful candidates, saying this would put the party in a good position to say its election process had been “robust”.
Under the legal advice, people known to have voted for other parties according to Labour canvass returns would have been asked to confirm again that they really did support its aims and values. But the party’s procedure committee voted to take no action.
Under our current electoral arrangements of course the Tory victory is legitimate. What you cannot do is jump from a factual result produced by a very particular set of electoral and constitutional arrangements, to a conjecture about 'the spirit of the country'. Judged on the votes cast and those not engaging, the spirit of the country (shouldn't that be countries?) is fragmented; interestingly this fragmentation is something you seem to recognise in another post but conveniently forget in your weird desire to pontificate on what the country wants.
I can only hope that you are more rigorous and coherent in your day job.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
p.s. why did you ignore the actual questions I asked about what constitutes the country you are so keen to divine the will of?
I dont know why you find that so hard to imagine, It definately applies to me, and many of my friends. I did vote last time, just not for Labour.Then, on top of that, such a victory would rest on the assumption that the UK contains a left-wing "silent/so disaffected that they haven't been arsed to vote before" bloc.
It's awful strange, this democracy stuff, isn't it?
Majority governments that aren't majority governments because the majority is all the people who voted for lots of other parties that form a majority...
e2a - and those that didn't vote at all.
this is the email he got :
Dear Applicant,
Thank you for your recent application to become a Supporter of the Labour Party.
As part of the process to sign up as a Supporter all applicants are asked to confirm the following statement; I support the aims and values of the Labour Party, and I am not a supporter of any organisation opposed to it.
We have reason to believe that you do not support the aims and values of the Labour Party or you are a supporter of an organisation opposed to the Labour Party and therefore we are rejecting your application.
Although you may have received or may still receive a ballot paper, it will not work and if you do vote it will not be counted.
Should you wish to dispute rejection by the Labour Party you would have to submit and pursue an application to join Labour as a full member.
Kind Regards
The Labour Party
Sent by email from the Labour Party and promoted by Iain McNicol on behalf of The Labour Party, both at One Brewers Green, London SW1H 0RH.
Website: labour.org.uk. To join or renew call 0845 092 2299
its really bizarre, the new labour really dont want him to win do they... this is not what id call democarcy
I dont know why you find that so hard to imagine, It definately applies to me, and many of my friends. I did vote last time, just not for Labour.
its really bizarre, the new labour really dont want him to win do they... this is not what id call democarcy
So the argument is that Corbyn will magic votes from those who did not vote last time out while bleeding some of the more centre-left Labour supporters?
That seems a bit odd to be frank - lose votes, then dilute the weight of each vote by gaining those who did not vote before.
Then, on top of that, such a victory would rest on the assumption that the UK contains a left-wing "silent/so disaffected that they haven't been arsed to vote before" bloc.
this is the email he got :
Dear Applicant,
Thank you for your recent application to become a Supporter of the Labour Party.
As part of the process to sign up as a Supporter all applicants are asked to confirm the following statement; I support the aims and values of the Labour Party, and I am not a supporter of any organisation opposed to it.
We have reason to believe that you do not support the aims and values of the Labour Party or you are a supporter of an organisation opposed to the Labour Party and therefore we are rejecting your application.
Although you may have received or may still receive a ballot paper, it will not work and if you do vote it will not be counted.
Should you wish to dispute rejection by the Labour Party you would have to submit and pursue an application to join Labour as a full member.
Kind Regards
The Labour Party
Sent by email from the Labour Party and promoted by Iain McNicol on behalf of The Labour Party, both at One Brewers Green, London SW1H 0RH.
Website: labour.org.uk. To join or renew call 0845 092 2299
its really bizarre, the new labour really dont want him to win do they... this is not what id call democarcy
I think Diamond is actually right. Why does it matter when a relatively small minority of those who voted elected a government?
Well it's not the argument, it's just my own view about what would need to happen for a Corbyn leadership to translate into electoral success. I don't see how it is odd or 'magic' either. All policy positions will alter the composition of the vote that a party gets, and yes, I do think there is a fairly significant "silent/so disaffected that they haven't been arsed to vote before" bloc. But like I say, it all depends on how the numbers play out.
I know it isn't. But not enough people give a toss, and, as I said, it's nearly always the case that everybody accepts governments elected by a minority as legitimate.Because it's not democratic for a party chosen by a minority of voters to have complete control over the government.
this is not what id call democarcy