Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[killer b]

SWP style/sect politics entering the L/P.

nothing new here tbf

 

[belboid]

was this before or after it was all over the national press?

I hadn't seen it mentioned in the press until today, so that'd be before.

 

[killer b]

I hadn't seen it mentioned in the press until today, so that'd be before.

this was on the third of october Dame Louise Ellman: Labour group's Yom Kippur action condemned

 

[killer b]

so that'd be after

 

[belboid]

so that'd be after

fair enough. But so what? Do you really think anyone gives a shit about it being Yom Kippur except those who were already opposed to the motion for other reasons? It's utter nonsense that you are falling for.

 

[teqniq]

Funny how it's only just appeared as a front page story on the BBC and Graun pages today. Personally I feel the whole antisemitimsm thing with the Labour party has been massively over-egged.

 

[killer b]

I'm totally fine with Ellman being deselected. All I'm saying on this thread is the people wanting to do that could have done so very easily without giving her this particular stick to beat them with, by checking the calendar first. I'm not falling for anything.

 

[brogdale]

I'm totally fine with Ellman being deselected. All I'm saying on this thread is the people wanting to do that could have done so very easily without giving her this particular stick to beat them with, by checking the calendar first. I'm not falling for anything.

Has Ellman actually mentioned the significance of the date?

 

[killer b]

Has Ellman actually mentioned the significance of the date?

according to the link above, Dame Louise said the timing was "particularly insidious".

 

[cantsin]

the timing, as with multiple other attempts at trigger ballots all over the country, is inextricably linked to post conference / pre general election timeframe - any attempt to imply it's anything else is just straight up bollocks, obvs

 

[Proper Tidy]

I dunno why what killer b is saying is provoking controversy. It might be entirely innocuous, it might be just the way cards have fallen with conference/GE. What's it fucking matter. Clearly having debate on deselection of a jewish MP on yom kippur, the holiest day in judaism, is fucking stupid at any time. When it is coming from the labour left which a) is being attacked as antisemites for factional reasons and b) also does have antisemites in its ranks then it's fucking incredibly stupid. Fucks sake.

 

[belboid]

Of course its entirely innocuous. The BBC piece on her quitting doesn't even bother mentioning it, it's that irrelevant.

 

[brogdale]

I dunno why what killer b is saying is provoking controversy. It might be entirely innocuous, it might be just the way cards have fallen with conference/GE. What's it fucking matter. Clearly having debate on deselection of a jewish MP on yom kippur, the holiest day in judaism, is fucking stupid at any time. When it is coming from the labour left which a) is being attacked as antisemites for factional reasons and b) also does have antisemites in its ranks then it's fucking incredibly stupid. Fucks sake.

I get what you're saying...but...the CLP secretary would have set meeting dates long ago (probably last December?) and could not possibly know what particular motions members may raise at any particular meeting. Assuming that Ellman did not object to the date when it was calendarised, I can't see what the issue is. Surely you're not saying that members can't propose confidence motions because the meeting happens to be one that the sitting Mp would never have attended for supernatural belief reasons?

 

[killer b]

Surely you're not saying that members can't propose confidence motions because the meeting happens to be one that the sitting Mp would never have attended for supernatural belief reasons?

I'm saying when considering whether they should propose a pointless confidence motion, members should do a few basic checks - including the fucking calendar - to make sure they aren't actually handing the person they're proposing the no confidence motion in a massive shitty stick to beat them with.

 

[belboid]

Such a massive stick the BBC didn't even notice it.

Should have left the motion until it was too late to deselect her, obvs.

 

[brogdale]

I'm saying when considering whether they should propose a pointless confidence motion, members should do a few basic checks - including the fucking calendar - to make sure they aren't actually handing the person they're proposing the no confidence motion in a massive shitty stick to beat them with.

Perhaps they knew she would do that whatever the date, as was the case. Wasn't the motion precipitated by her public slagging of Corbyn in the first place?

 

[killer b]

Such a massive stick the BBC didn't even notice it.

Should have left the motion until it was too late to deselect her, obvs.

this is a bbc story?

this was on the third of october Dame Louise Ellman: Labour group's Yom Kippur action condemned

 

[belboid]

but they dont mention it today, when she has quit.

 

[killer b]

Every other news outlet has, should you care to google.

This is really boring. All I'm saying - and it isn't really that difficult or controversial - is that this particular related story could easily have been avoided with a little thought and calendar checking. That's all.

 

[belboid]

Every other news outlet has, should you care to google.

No they dont. Neither the guardian or the mirror (the most important sites for labour party voters) mention it at all. Nor do the Times or politicshome, which are the first sites brought up when googling 'Louise Ellman.' Plenty of other comments re anti-semitism, but not that. Clearly they dont see it as a massive stick to beat Labour up with, for being massively racist.

This is really boring. All I'm saying - and it isn't really that difficult or controversial - is that this particular related story could easily have been avoided with a little thought and calendar checking. That's all.

And all I'm saying is you're wrong, and you're failing to understand the Labour Party calendar. Meeting dates set long in advance, election imminent. Now is the obvious time to bring any such motion.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Of course its entirely innocuous. The BBC piece on her quitting doesn't even bother mentioning it, it's that irrelevant.

It doesn't matter whether it is innocuous or not though does it

 

[killer b]

The obvious time to propose a non-binding motion that only serves to give your enemies things to shriek about is 'never'

 

[brogdale]

The obvious time to propose a non-binding motion that only serves to give your enemies things to shriek about is 'never'

Maybe the membership knew better? After all, she has now gone.

 

[killer b]

At the cost of everyone thinking they're racists. I'm sure there's better ways of getting someone gone.

 

[brogdale]

At the cost of everyone thinking they're racists. I'm sure there's better ways of getting someone gone.

Perhaps that's where we differ? I've no idea if the proposer & seconder of the motion that was to be considered are antisemitic or, indeed, if 'everyone' thinks they are as a result of tabling the motion of no confidence.
What I do know is that Ellman has gone and, in doing so, has done her best to undermine her former party.

 

[killer b]

...Undermining which would have been less effective if her CLP had bothered to check the calendar before proposing a non-binding and totally worthless confidence motion on Yom Kippur

 

[belboid]

At the cost of everyone thinking they're racists. I'm sure there's better ways of getting someone gone.

'everyone'?? Come on, 99% of the population wont have even noticed it. Even the political types. Because its irrelevant. Which is why most significant papers haven't even mentioned it today.

 

[belboid]

The obvious time to propose a non-binding motion that only serves to give your enemies things to shriek about is 'never'

You don't actually care it was on Yom Kippur, you just think its a shit motion. Stop blathering about the date when you dont even really agree with yourself!

 

[killer b]

I think it was a shit motion, and I think the shitness was compounded by the timing.

Everyone is not literally everyone. You know this.

 

[brogdale]

...Undermining which would have been less effective if her CLP had bothered to check the calendar before proposing a non-binding and totally worthless confidence motion on Yom Kippur

There again, I think we disagree. Given her already expressed antipathy towards the LP leadership, I've no reason to suppose that Ellman would have left in any different manner if her opponents had tabled on a different date.