Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[Treacle Toes]

And yet it's not an uncommon view in certain quarters. This from the Jerusalem Post:


The Holocaust Industry: Finkelstein, Gary Spedding and the Anti-Israel Activist 2.0 - Blogs - Jerusalem Post

Also an interesting insight into the history of G Spedding.

My understanding is that Finkelstein gets a lot of flack because he is so critical of the Israeli state and refuses to yield. Is the suggestion here that he is working with/alongside anti-semetic nutjobs and neo-nazis? Is he being blamed for others' misuse of his work?

 

[butchersapron]

Crossed wires, this was a reference to bimble's view of Finkelstein as a friend of David Irving

Ok, gotcha.

 

[19force8]

My understanding is that Finkelstein gets a lot of flack because he is so critical of the Israeli state and refuses to yield. Is the suggestion here that he is working with/alongside anti-semetic nutjobs and neo-nazis?

It is

Is he being blamed for others' misuse of his work?

He is.

[edited for clarity]

What I couldn't figure out was why a worm like Spedding merited an attack piece in the Jerusalem Post. But then I'm not familiar with that organ's priorities.

 

[bimble]

And yet it's not an uncommon view in certain quarters. This from the Jerusalem Post:



The Holocaust Industry: Finkelstein, Gary Spedding and the Anti-Israel Activist 2.0 - Blogs - Jerusalem Post

Also an interesting insight into the history of G Spedding.

Yes that's what I was referring to, the friendly correspondence between Fink and Irving and the popularity of his works on neo-nazi websites, where the full text of the bestseller can be read alongside such classics as The Hoax of the twentieth Century & The International Jew by Ford. . If I feel like getting riled later will come back and post a few of my 'favourite' quotes of his.

 

[butchersapron]

Talking of McCarthy...classic double smear. Someone nasty has misused his work therefore he's dodgy. And I have some quotes on this here piece of paper.

Classic Bimble.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes that's what I was referring to, the friendly correspondence between Fink and Irving and the popularity of his works on neo-nazi websites, where the full text of the bestseller can be read alongside such classics as The Hoax of the twentieth Century & The International Jew by Ford. . If I feel like getting riled later will come back and post a few of my 'favourite' quotes of his.

right. so you're blaming finkelstein for the popularity of his works on neo-nazi websites.

 

[bimble]

If you want to hero-worship Finkelstein as some truth-to-power renegade go ahead but maybe just pause and consider as an example of his way of carrying on how he treats of the ordeal of the Swiss Banks v the rapacious jews in his book.
If you have any interest in what actually happened with the Swiss banks (see Volcker Report) and then look at how Finkelstein portrays the whole thing, you will notice that he omits entirely from his book the facts that don't fit his story of the banks as spotless victims of a grave injustice. If you don't know any better you'd believe him that the banks did nothing wrong. "Switzerland was easy prey.. The shakedown of Switzerland and Germany has been only the prelude to the grand finale.."But he's a marxist so its all good yeah.

 

[butchersapron]

One day you will make a post that doesn't mainly consist of aggressively putting words and positions in others mouths. I'm sure of it.

 

[Pickman's model]

If you want to hero-worship Finkelstein as some truth-to-power renegade go ahead but maybe just pause and consider as an example of his way of carrying on how he treats of the ordeal of the Swiss Banks v the rapacious jews in his book.
If you have any interest in what actually happened with the Swiss banks (see Volcker Report) and then look at how Finkelstein portrays the whole thing, you will notice that he omits entirely from his book the facts that don't fit his story of the banks as spotless victims of a grave injustice. If you don't know any better you'd believe him that the banks did nothing wrong. "Switzerland was easy prey.. The shakedown of Switzerland and Germany has been only the prelude to the grand finale.."But he's a marxist so its all good yeah.

here we go again. i'm not 'hero-worshipping' him, i'm just expecting you to have a half-arsed go at proving your case. you don't even give a page number for your quote, nor have you given any real substantiation of your claim about irving's correspondence. couldn't you at least try to be honest about what people say instead of making up motivations?

 

[bimble]

I can't do this subject without getting really wound up and posting intemperate things in anger so will try to leave everyone else to it.

 

[Humirax]

I'd just like to make it clear that I had no idea about David Irving and Finkelstein, this is news to me and I hope the two are not friends. If it is to be believed that they are though, some evidence is required. And as I say, I am by no means an expert on all this and have not gone into this stuff for years.

 

[Humirax]

David Irving is ofcourse a vile bigot and hate-monger, the man is a piece of shit.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes that's what I was referring to, the friendly correspondence between Fink and Irving and the popularity of his works on neo-nazi websites, .

Do you have examples of this? It's a pretty serious claim to leave hanging like that.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I can't do this subject without getting really wound up and posting intemperate things in anger so will try to leave everyone else to it.

Intemperate things, or made-up things, like the friendly correspondence you referred to? Before you run off, you need to say what evidence you have for this statement, no? If none, say 'none'.

 

[19force8]

I'd just like to make it clear that I had no idea about David Irving and Finkelstein, this is news to me and I hope the two are not friends. If it is to be believed that they are though, some evidence is required. And as I say, I am by no means an expert on all this and have not gone into this stuff for years.

To put your mind at ease - here's Finkelstein on Irving:

In a speech at Yale University in 2005, Finkelstein said of Irving that "personally, I don't like the fellow...I think he is a Nazi", but that he thought Irving was useful as a devil's advocate. (Normanfinkelstein.com. Retrieved 18 August 2014.) on Critical responses to David Irving - Wikipedia

In case we're getting serious about references

 

[Pickman's model]

I can't do this subject without getting really wound up and posting intemperate things in anger so will try to leave everyone else to it.

so it's good to know the intemperate things you've posted thus far have been done in a calm and collected fashion.

 

[bimble]

Intemperate things, or made-up things, like the friendly correspondence you referred to? Before you run off, you need to say what evidence you have for this statement, no? If none, say 'none'.

will do with references when back in later. After that for own sanity will stay out of the topic on here.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Regarding the non-relationship between Finkelstein and Irving, well I've looked and looked and looked and it keeps coming back to the same thing...Nicely summarised here with transcripts from The Holocaust Industry and one of Freedland's articles in the JC.

Jonathan Freedland keeps digging—how low will he go? - Norman G. Finkelstein

Freedland misquoted him?

 

[19force8]

If you want to hero-worship Finkelstein as some truth-to-power renegade go ahead but maybe just pause and consider as an example of his way of carrying on how he treats of the ordeal of the Swiss Banks v the rapacious jews in his book.
If you have any interest in what actually happened with the Swiss banks (see Volcker Report) and then look at how Finkelstein portrays the whole thing, you will notice that he omits entirely from his book the facts that don't fit his story of the banks as spotless victims of a grave injustice. If you don't know any better you'd believe him that the banks did nothing wrong. "Switzerland was easy prey.. The shakedown of Switzerland and Germany has been only the prelude to the grand finale.."But he's a marxist so its all good yeah.

You've read the book then.

 

[Pickman's model]

will do with references when back in later. After that for own sanity will stay out of the topic on here.

*taps watch*

 

[Pickman's model]

Regarding the non-relationship between Finkelstein and Irving, well I've looked and looked and looked and it keeps coming back to the same thing...Nicely summarised here with transcripts from The Holocaust Industry and one of Freedland's articles in the JC.

Jonathan Freedland keeps digging—how low will he go? - Norman G. Finkelstein

Freedland misquoted him?

Perhaps bimble will provide the references she doubtless has to substantiate her claim. Cos she wouldn't bullshit us, would she?

 

[Treacle Toes]

That misrepresentation/lie just gets repeated all over.

Here is another example...The ideas of Irving and the misrepresentation of Finkelstein is done in the first paragraph so sets him up nicely as a friend of Irving and a holocaust denier.

RonMossad: Norman Finkelstein and the Holocaust Denial/Minimization Industry attacks us all

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That misrepresentation/lie just gets repeated all over.

Here is another example...The ideas of Irving and the misrepresentation of Finkelstein is done in the first paragraph so sets him up nicely as a friend of Irving and a holocaust denier.

RonMossad: Norman Finkelstein and the Holocaust Denial/Minimization Industry attacks us all

Shameless, isn't it? Aimed firmly at those who are not familiar with Finkelstein's work or arguments. Anyone who is would find the idea that he's a friend of Irving laughable.

 

[Treacle Toes]

It takes a special kind of coward to be that shameless I think.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It takes a special kind of coward to be that shameless I think.

Yep. Shameless and spineless. Unable to counter the actual things he says, you just make shit up and denounce him for that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What’s a Yiddish name?

Grynsteyn.

 

[butchersapron]

OK - right she'll be back in a sec with a bit of paper full of names, no not names quotes.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Regarding the non-relationship between Finkelstein and Irving, well I've looked and looked and looked and it keeps coming back to the same thing...Nicely summarised here with transcripts from The Holocaust Industry and one of Freedland's articles in the JC.

Jonathan Freedland keeps digging—how low will he go? - Norman G. Finkelstein

Freedland misquoted him?

Freedland not only misquoted him, he entirely misrepresented him. Freedland has form as long as his journalistic career for doing so in order to build a story.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yep. Shameless and spineless. Unable to counter the actual things he says, you just make shit up and denounce him for that.

a la Goebbels. Go for the big lie.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Freedland not only misquoted him, he entirely misrepresented him. Freedland has form as long as his journalistic career for doing so in order to build a story.

Yeah...I wanted to add misrepresented to that post but someone quoted it before I could.

Interestingly in his JC article he regrets alikening NGF to a nazi but says nothing of basically lying about what he had written. He dresses the lie up in disgust and again repeats it.

wish I could say I was blameless on this score, but I can't. Sixteen years ago, I was appalled by a short book called The Holocaust Industry by Norman Finkelstein. I wrote that it echoed arguments made by David Irving, who had just lost his notorious libel action and had been branded by the High Court as nothing more than a "pro-Nazi polemicist". Finkelstein's book praised Irving as having made an "indispensable" contribution to our understanding of the last war. In the final line of the piece I wrote that Finkelstein's outlook took "him closer to the people who created the Holocaust than to those who suffered in it."

I now regret writing that sentence. Finkelstein is a child of Holocaust survivors but even if he were not, I should not have written those words. If I could withdraw them, I would. Implicitly, I had made the comparison - of Jews and Nazis - that I believe should be off-limits.

https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/don-t-play-the-nazi-card-1.57727