Labour Anti-Semitism (and general failings) Report

[killer b]

business acumen is the jewish natural sense of rhythm

 

[Proper Tidy]

there isnt any point in trying to discuss 'the politics' if you are going to be dishonest about what other people have said, is there?

that evidence of anti-semitism amongst members is no higher than other unacceptable prejudices

The claim (as repeated by some on here) was that Labour had a 'massive' AS problem completely out of proportion to other bigotries. These claims have been ashen to be palpably false.

I have never believed or said that “there is no issue with antisemitism on the labour left” you just made that up.

Either you are saying that there is no issue with antisemitism on the labour left or you are saying the labour left is racist, which one is it mate

 

[belboid]

Either you are saying that there is no issue with antisemitism on the labour left or you are saying the labour left is racist, which one is it mate

I'm not your mate. And if you cant make sense out of those four brief sentences, that's your problem, it's pretty fucking obvious.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I'm not your mate. And if you cant make sense out of those four brief sentences, that's your problem, it's pretty fucking obvious.

Lol

 

[William of Walworth]

Yes, there were lots of names in that version -- the one I read.
The report's insanely long -- over 800 pages.
I was just able to read the -- longish -- summaries to each section, and several other bits, but I agree with @oryx -- the whole thing's beyond disgusting
The named people should be expelled from the party. And if Starmer wants a new Gen Sec that had better not be Emilie Oldknow!!
(Not sure where the rumour came from that Oldknow was Starmer's preferred name anyway, but on the grounds of pure pragmatism, which Starmer's supposed to be good at, he'd be best off not touching her name for Gen Sec with a bargepole ).

the ‘named people’ such as the teenage complainants should be expelled?

Yes, oh-so-obviously it was them I meant, Einstein!

Re-read my entire post above please, in particular the comments about Emilie Oldknow -- it was clear as something that isn't mud!!! that I think it's the right-wing shit-stirrers and Corbyn underminers who should be expelled.

My post above was a big fat zero to do with complainants about anti-semitism in the LP -- after all, it looks like it was as much Labour Party anti-Corbyn staffers' factional plotting, as Corbyn and his own staff's incompetence, that seem to have been responsible for failures to investigate antisemitism.
Presumably the EHRC report will clarify all that (?) but the authors of that report should definitely take into serious consideration the contents of this internal LP report.

 

[belboid]

Lol

laughing at islamophobia now? Nice

 

[Proper Tidy]

laughing at islamophobia now? Nice

Mate

 

[bimble]

The report is 800 pages long. Can you point to the area of it where it says that ‘antisemitism among members is no higher than any other unacceptable prejudices’ please belboid ?
I did see the bit where it says



but haven’t seen what you’re saying is in it. Does it go on to say that all sorts of other racism are equally common amongst members ?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Denying the denialism
Ooh he's so cute

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The report is 800 pages long. Can you point to the area of it where it says that ‘antisemitism among members is no higher than any other unacceptable prejudices’ please belboid ?
I did see the bit where it says

View attachment 206815

but haven’t seen what you’re saying is in it. Does it go on to say that all sorts of other racism are equally common amongst members ?

This is the point that seems to have been missed by some posters. The report specifically says the scale of the AS complaints was “out of proportion to other bigotries”. The very opposite of what some now preposterously claim it says.

 

[belboid]

The report is 800 pages long. Can you point to the area of it where it says that ‘antisemitism among members is no higher than any other unacceptable prejudices’ please belboid ?
I did see the bit where it says

View attachment 206815

but haven’t seen what you’re saying is in it. Does it go on to say that all sorts of other racism are equally common amongst members ?

it points out that the complaints process was shit about all cases of allegations of racism. It shows that many of the cases sent in were not about Labour Party members and that those who seent them in (notably LAAS & Hodge) effectively wasted a lot of time by putting forward such a massive wad if unsubstantiated cases (although there were a not insignificant numbers of legitimate cases included amidst the rest). It shows how claims of islamophobia against various members, including councillors, had also been badly dealt with via the complaints process. It shows, without any shadow of a doubt, that the delays in looking at the allegations - one of the main objections of those on the right - was due to progress supporters not Corbyn and team. To repeat, those delays were a central theme of the claims of AS amongst the labour leadership itself, and they are provably false, so that is a very major admission that shouldn't just be brushed over.

I, and almost everyone I know excluding the small numbers around Labour Against the Witch-hunt (and not even all of them) have never said it was 'all a smear/witch-hunt,' simply that is exaggerated, for malicious reasons. I'll have a dig thru the doc again and see see what explicit comparisons it gives, altho they are very poorly compiled due to the massive failures in Labour's data collection.

 

[William of Walworth]

On the (imminent??) EHRC report, I'm really not getting this (in Sienna Rodgers' Guardian piece) about the internal LP report :

However, it will not be submitted to the Equality and Human Rights Commission that is currently investigating antisemitism within the party, as party lawyers have reportedly decided that it is not within the scope of the external probe.

WTF are 'party lawyers' saying that for?
And do not the EHRC investigators themselves have the power to decide for themselves whether the report is relevant?

 

[killer b]

On the (imminent??) EHRC report, I'm really not getting this (in Sienna Rodgers' Guardian piece) about the internal LP report :



WTF are 'party lawyers' saying that for?
And do not the EHRC investigators themselves have the power to decide for themselves whether the report is relevant?

this report was originally conceived as an appendix to the evidence the Labour Party were submitting to the EHRC - it's exclusion by Labour lawyers was the reason it ended up getting leaked.

 

[William of Walworth]

killer b : Yes, I remember seeing that, but I didn't really pick up on why party lawyers wanted/needed to exclude this material.

And have not the EHRC people scope to at least look at it anyway, not that it's been leaked anyway? Or is it too late?

From what I've read of the internal LP report (parts only, tbf), there's plenty that seems very relevant to anti-semitism failings.

 

[killer b]

anyway

 

[agricola]

On the (imminent??) EHRC report, I'm really not getting this (in Sienna Rodgers' Guardian piece) about the internal LP report :



WTF are 'party lawyers' saying that for?
And do not the EHRC investigators themselves have the power to decide for themselves whether the report is relevant?

probably because the defence was that interference in / delay of / differing treatment over complaints of this kind didn't happen, whereas the report tends to suggest that it might have

 

[William of Walworth]

probably because the defence was that interference in / delay of / differing treatment over complaints of this kind didn't happen, whereas the report tends to suggest that it might have

Sure, but there's still a shedload of content in the internal report that's full-on relevant to how badly complaints of antisemitism (and of other things) got dealt with.

 

[agricola]

Sure, but there's still a shedload of content in the internal report that's full-on relevant to how badly complaints of antisemitism (and of other things) got dealt with.

I suppose it all depends on what the LP response to the EHRC actually was. If they've said the usual one or two bad apples / previous regime / everythings fine now / valuable lessons learned / could never happen again then having an appendix that is chock full of what appears to be badly handled complaints and factional warfare by investigation teams (supported by the General Secretary and other senior figures) is going to undermine it massively.

 

[killer b]

They had an outgoing leader everything could just be neatly loaded onto, while Starmer's new broom sweeps in a new age of mutual respect and understanding. This definitely undermines that.

 

[William of Walworth]

agricola : Cheers for that post.
That's a good reason why Labour Party lawyers might want to restrict EHRC access to that report
But very much not a good reason for EHRC to exclude consideration of it -- especially now that it's been leaked anyway.

 

[killer b]

Have the EHRC said they'll exclude it from consideration? I'm not aware of them expressing a view.

 

[William of Walworth]

Have the EHRC said they'll exclude it from consideration? I'm not aware of them expressing a view.

OK, I hope you're right that they might.
Makes much more logical sense that EHRC wouldn't specify (yet) which material they were considering.
But I was convinced I'd read that they wouldn't consider this report.
Obviously I could well be wrong there -- I'd be hard-pushed now to find where I read that
Somewhere on this thread?

 

[19sixtysix]

I think the courts wil be where this ends up. Whether this is members suing the conspirators for damages and loss (subs, donations and time) or finding a criminal conspiracy to defraud an employer or the party for failing to deal with them. The Labour party will have to deal with it. Brushing a dead body under a rug will not work.

 

[teqniq]

Labour ask police to investigate claims staff worked for Tory election victory

EXCLUSIVE: Sir Keir Starmer ordered the probe after being elected the new leader of the Labour party - and police have started to look in to death threats made against staff

www.mirror.co.uk

A full-scale operation has been mounted to shut down distribution of a leaked report alleging that senior campaign managers were part of a clandestine group trying to stop Jeremy Corbyn becoming PM.

A report has been filed with the Information Commissioner’s Office while an internal investigation is looking at a “serious” data breach via WhatsApp messages and email.

Party officials have also contacted social media companies to take down any copies of the report still online and local parties told not to share it.

bit late for that isn't it?

 

[Badgers]

 

[oryx]

View attachment 225716
View attachment 225717

'kin hell, he's a councillor as well.

Bet nothing happens to him though.