Kilman's rejection of Underconsumptist theories of the Crisis.

[deke t lefel]

good to agree on something

is capitalism self-perpetuating now or does it still rely on the original cause?

 

[butchersapron]

It's not and never has been self perpetuating. It is dependent on labour. That's how it works, What's the original cause?

 

[deke t lefel]

It has a series of internal drivers that forces owners of capital to act in a certain way. This appears as choice and is the source of the naturalisation of capitalist relations. It's the opposite of freedom but appears as total freedom.

one of the primary internal drivers is probably trust - what are the others?

 

[deke t lefel]

It's not and never has been self perpetuating. It is dependent on labour. That's how it works, What's the original cause?

inequality

 

[butchersapron]

one of the primary internal drivers is probably trust - what are the others?

You've not established yours yet. Do you want to have a go at that first?

 

[deke t lefel]

all transactions of capital require trust, trust that a contract will be fulfilled, isn't that the basis of money?

 

[butchersapron]

Why and how are transactions in money taking place?

 

[deke t lefel]

in times of labour shortages, credit notes in the form of money are handed out, to be redeemed in the future

 

[butchersapron]

Where~?

 

[deke t lefel]

in the community

 

[butchersapron]

all transactions of capital

You taking the piss? What is a transaction, what is capital, what's it got to do with this thread?

 

[butchersapron]

in the community

Oh just go away.

 

[deke t lefel]

no
a business deal
stuff that has value
capitalism

 

[butchersapron]

Bye

 

[deke t lefel]

Oh just go away.

well, ask a stupid question..........

 

[deke t lefel]

Bye

have a nice day

 

[deke t lefel]

It has a series of internal drivers that forces owners of capital to act in a certain way. This appears as choice and is the source of the naturalisation of capitalist relations. It's the opposite of freedom but appears as total freedom.

so, what are the internal drivers?
or is it a secret?

 

[butchersapron]

so, what are the internal drivers?
or is it a secret?

The profit motive - the need to earn above the av rate of profit.

 

[deke t lefel]

that implies greed, so is the profit motive driven by capitalism or capitalists?

 

[butchersapron]

No it doesn't. That's the point.

 

[deke t lefel]

okay, so part of the "logic" of capitalism is to continually increase the average rate of profit, although that logic doesn't extend to the knowledge that it is unsustainable?

 

[butchersapron]

okay, so part of the "logic" of capitalism is to continually increase the average rate of profit, although that logic doesn't extend to the knowledge that it is unsustainable?

The motivation to achieve, to meet the av ROP. No one mentioned increasing the rate of profit.

 

[deke t lefel]

The profit motive - the need to earn above the av rate of profit.

did you mean the need to meet the average rate of profit?

 

[butchersapron]

Did i mean what i said? Yes. Hope this helps.

 

[deke t lefel]

surely the need of capitalism to earn above the average rate of profit, means that the profit rate needs to increase?
or is the profit motive, a motivation for capitalists to earn more than the average, meaning that other capitalists earn less than the average?
a sort of survival of the fittest?

 

[butchersapron]

surely the need of capitalism to earn above the average rate of profit, means that the profit rate needs to increase?
or is the profit motive, a motivation for capitalists to earn more than the average, meaning that other capitalists earn less than the average?
a sort of survival of the fittest?

It means nothing of the sort. The av rate is post-fact. Then post-fact, where does your money go?

 

[deke t lefel]

no idea, where does it go?

 

[butchersapron]

Go away weirdo.

 

[deke t lefel]

aye, aye Spock

 

[xslavearcx]

Great line this from the SP EC

.which is the conclusion that the working class would also come to with our help over time

haha thats amazing. i know those kinda assumptions happen in the left a fair bit, but does it ever get expressed in such an explicit manner?