Keir Starmer's time is up

[prunus]

I wouldn't help put that prick Starmer in.

Ok, well that does make some sense, but you think that, even though that means by default you’d be helping put (probably) Truss in? And also very likely putting a significantly worse (I am assuming Tory, but even if Lib Dem still likely true) MP into parliament and as your representative?

Unless you’d actively prefer Truss (which I assume not) and/or a Tory/Lib Dem MP that seems to me to be a bit of a cutting off one’s nose approach.

Ie do you really feel that Starmer as PM is actually a worse outcome than Truss?

 

[Cid]

Yeah, greens here. Labour safe seat (34k last election, Tories 7k, G4.5k, LD 3.2k), so I figure extremely unlikely to swing blue (because most protest votes will likely accrue G/LD).

e2a: yes I know greens are a shit protest vote technically, but don't think that really registers in wider public consciousness.

 

[Chilli.s]

Unless you’d actively prefer Truss (which I assume not) and/or a Tory/Lib Dem MP that seems to me to be a bit of a cutting off one’s nose approach.

This is where the spunking cock vote cums into its true place. Does nothing for any candidate, no point in tactical lesser of two cunts scenario

 

[SpookyFrank]

I might have voted Labour at the next GE if the incumbent MP was standing because he's actually OK, but he's retiring and they're plugging some party drone from London as his annointed replacement. Not that safe of a labour seat and it'll have a big chunk of its working class neighbourhoods excised and handed to the neighbouring tory seat next time round, so it could turn blue I suppose. But I can't in good conscience vote for a Starmer Labour party.

I don't see holding your nose and voting Labour at this point to be a tactical vote because they're just more tories. About the only meaningful message voters can send at this point is to stay the fuck at home. That's what will actually help people like striking workers; if they're able to say look this government (whichever one it is) has fuck all for a mandate and we don't recognise their authority to fuck us over.

 

[steveo87]

Ok, well that does make some sense, but you think that, even though that means by default you’d be helping put (probably) Truss in? And also very likely putting a significantly worse (I am assuming Tory, but even if Lib Dem still likely true) MP into parliament and as your representative?

Unless you’d actively prefer Truss (which I assume not) and/or a Tory/Lib Dem MP that seems to me to be a bit of a cutting off one’s nose approach.

Ie do you really feel that Starmer as PM is actually a worse outcome than Truss?

100 times, this.

I loath Starmer, I loath his middling 'soft-left' bullshit, I loath neo-liberal inanity (if thats a word) of the modern, post Blair, Labour Party.


Bit I fucking hate the Tories.

Fundermebtally, if people want a credible alternative to the Tories, you have to vote Labour. Its depressing as fuck, but here we are.

My only hope, as has been for a number of GE now, is that 'after the next one', those alienated within the PLP will form another, more credible (ultimately leftwing) party.

But I doubt that'll happen.

 

[Cid]

This is where the spunking cock vote cums into its true place. Does nothing for any candidate, no point in tactical lesser of two cunts scenario

Yeah, but it barely registers in terms of reporting. Probably better just to stay home and add to the 'record low turnout' stats that may come up.

 

[Rob Ray]

100 times, this.

I loath Starmer, I loath his middling 'soft-left' bullshit, I loath neo-liberal inanity (if thats a word) of the modern, post Blair, Labour Party.


Bit I fucking hate the Tories.

Fundermebtally, if people want a credible alternative to the Tories, you have to vote Labour. Its depressing as fuck, but here we are.

My only hope, as has been for a number of GE now, is that 'after the next one', those alienated within the PLP will form another, more credible (ultimately leftwing) party.

But I doubt that'll happen.

For people who want the Labour Party to have at least a pretense of a chance of going left again I'd have thought the better outcome in the long term is for Starmerism to lose against Truss. Otherwise you're looking at the Labour right crowing forever about their electability in comparison to Corbynism.

 

[SpookyFrank]

'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' is patchy logic at the best of times, but Starmer's not even the enemy of my enemy.

 

[Rob Ray]

Yeah tbh sacking people for turning up on a picket line goes even further than the usual "wait til we're in power and do nothing about the Tories' excesses". It points to "we're so worried about being perceived as left we'll extend the Tories' excesses".

 

[Serge Forward]

they....um

break strikes

So does Labour, to be fair.

 

[Cid]

For people who want the Labour Party to have at least a pretense of a chance of going left again I'd have thought the better outcome in the long term is for Starmerism to lose against Truss. Otherwise you're looking at the Labour right crowing forever about their electability in comparison to Corbynism.

Counter argument would be that electoral losses can lead to rightward drift - though not sure I really buy that (Brown > Miliband > Corbyn < Starmer). There probably is still room for 'Starmer was just too tainted by Corbyn' type arguments from the centre though. Batshit, but still.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Counter argument would be that electoral losses can lead to rightward drift - though not sure I really buy that (Brown > Miliband > Corbyn < Starmer). There probably is still room for 'Starmer was just too tainted by Corbyn' type arguments from the centre though. Batshit, but still.

Not sure how Starmer could drift any further to the right tbh, election or no.

 

[maomao]

Ok, well that does make some sense, but you think that, even though that means by default you’d be helping put (probably) Truss in? And also very likely putting a significantly worse (I am assuming Tory, but even if Lib Dem still likely true) MP into parliament and as your representative?

Unless you’d actively prefer Truss (which I assume not) and/or a Tory/Lib Dem MP that seems to me to be a bit of a cutting off one’s nose approach.

Ie do you really feel that Starmer as PM is actually a worse outcome than Truss?

If we get Truss as PM it'll be the fault of all the whiners who kept insisting on getting rid of Johnson, not my fault in any way as I live in a safe seat and am not a Conservative party member. For those who live in seats where their votes do count, voting for a rampantly right-wing Labour party is not in the long-term interests of the working class. Johnson was a better PM for most people than Starmer could ever be.

 

[Cid]

Not sure how Starmer could drift any further to the right tbh, election or no.

I mean the party rather than the inevitably deposed leader, but yeah, it is a stretch.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Instead of posting on here about your agonies about who you are going to vote for why not:

a) make peace with the fact that you are going to have to vote Labour which will take 10 minutes in 2024.
b) spend the time you would have wasted pondering whether to vote for the equally sickening and reactionary Greens/Liberals or whether to waste your vote on the cobweb left candidate doing something productive in your workplace/community instead.

Just an idea.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I mean the party rather than the inevitably deposed leader, but yeah, it is a stretch.

Someone like Rachel Reeves as leader could well be even worse tbf.

 

[Rob Ray]

a) make peace with the fact that you are going to have to vote Labour

I didn't vote Labour before and won't now, but otherwise sure.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not sure how Starmer could drift any further to the right tbh, election or no.

don't worry, he'll show you

 

[Pickman's model]

Someone like Rachel Reeves as leader could well be even worse tbf.

yeh even when you think they've reached the bottom of the barrel you'll find there's some shite left down there

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Someone like Rachel Reeves as leader could well be even worse tbf.

A bit like those dancing in delight when the odious Johnson fell only to realize that the replacement was Truss, those demanding Starmer's head will be shocked to discover Wes Streeting replace him and the Blairite hegemony restored. You can set your watch by this place...

 

[Pickman's model]

A bit like those dancing in delight when the odious Johnson fell only to realize that the replacement was Truss, those demanding Starmer's head will be shocked to discover Wes Streeting replace him and the Blairite hegemony restored. You can set your watch by this place...

every time i think of wes streeting an image of wes crusher off stng pops into my mind

 

[Rob Ray]

Starmer is the Blairite hegemony, or so tied to it as to make little difference. I don't see Reeves or Streeting being particularly worse than him outside of maybe taking a more erudite approach to their bullshitting.

 

[planetgeli]

A bit like those dancing in delight when the odious Johnson fell only to realize that the replacement was Truss, those demanding Starmer's head will be shocked to discover Wes Streeting replace him and the Blairite hegemony restored. You can set your watch by this place...

You keep repeating this but it isn't what happened or what happens. You think people were dancing on Johnson's grave in the expectation of some different Tory saviour? Or do we do it out of schadenfreude because it's one of the only little bits of joy in politics to see people you hate suffer?

 

[ruffneck23]

every time i think of wes streeting an image of wes crusher off stng pops into my mind

didnt he end up becoming some kind of celestial traveler? So he could well just pop up absolutely anywhere, so you might be on to something.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Instead of posting on here about your agonies about who you are going to vote for why not:

a) make peace with the fact that you are going to have to vote Labour which will take 10 minutes in 2024.
b) spend the time you would have wasted pondering whether to vote for the equally sickening and reactionary Greens/Liberals or whether to waste your vote on the cobweb left candidate doing something productive in your workplace/community instead.

Just an idea.

Fully agree with this. The Revisionist Starmer Clique's stance on industrial action is cowardly and pathetic but the Tories have already significantly weakened union rights and both leadership candidates have vowed to dramatically role them back further. However bad the Revisionist Starmer Clique are, the Tories are worse. Taking 10 minutes or so to engage in a bit of damage limitation is the right thing to do, but, as you say, what we do in our communities and workplaces is more important still.

 

[Rob Ray]

You keep repeating this but it isn't what happened or what happens. You think people were dancing on Johnson's grave in the expectation of some different Tory saviour? Or do we do it out of schadenfreude because it's one of the only little bits of joy in politics to see people you hate suffer?

The happiness I felt seeing Johnson squirm through that committee hearing, seeing he'd lost his majority and didn't yet know it, was completely unaffected by the sure knowledge that it'd just be some other cunt in charge later.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Fully agree with this. The Revisionist Starmer Clique's stance on industrial action is cowardly and pathetic but the Tories have already significantly weakened union rights and both leadership candidates have vowed to dramatically role them back further. However bad the Revisionist Starmer Clique are, the Tories are worse. Taking 10 minutes or so to engage in a bit of damage limitation is the right thing to do, but, as you say, what we do in our communities and workplaces is more important still.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

You keep repeating this but it isn't what happened or what happens. You think people were dancing on Johnson's grave in the expectation of some different Tory saviour? Or do we do it out of schadenfreude because it's one of the only little bits of joy in politics to see people you hate suffer?

Don't know. Both seems utterly pointless to me.

 

[Rob Ray]

Don't know. Both seems utterly pointless to me.

Why does there have to be a point? Enjoying the outcome of a football match doesn't change the nature of the game either. Let people enjoy things, it's not like there's an overabundance of happiness in being a leftie ffs.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The happiness I felt seeing Johnson squirm through that committee hearing, seeing he'd lost his majority and didn't yet know it, was completely unaffected by the sure knowledge that it'd just be some other cunt in charge later.

I'd agree if we were talking about the cunt being hung from a lamppost with piano wire, but a select committee hearing with difficult questions from other Tory and Labour twats from the Westminster bubble? Nah.