Keeping Brixton Crap: our public realm

[Winot]

Are you pre or post 2005 then?

1995 and there wasn't any transcendence involved I can assure you.

 

[CH1]

1995 and there wasn't any transcendence involved I can assure you.

Ah then it must come down to that old debate: SW2 or SW9?

 

[friendofdorothy]

snip> What we've been unable to do, at least since regeneration turned to gentrification, is oppose the collective agency of our fellow Londoners. And would-be Londoners, who'll be here in a flash if they can achieve it, whether they're coming from the other side of the world with little or nothing or from the Home Counties with a good degree and a plummy accent. We can't stop this being an attractive place to live to modern eyes, or even agree on keeping the public realm crap in order to reduce the attractions. We can't stop people clamouring to move here. We may wish there was a clamour to move to northern towns, it would solve an awful lot of problems, but we're not personally wanting to do that. We don't want social cleansing but our own agency reinforces the pressures which cause it, because each of us wants to live in Brixton/London.

In the 80s and 90s people weren't clamouring to live in Brixton - and taxi drivers didn't even want to go south.
Some of us here, escaped from northern towns in the first place. Please don't send me back!

 

[Gramsci]

I've been trying to work out how to inject some shades of grey without writing a huge, messy essay. Suffice to say that for decades London was rapidly depopulating, since when the accelerating desire to live here has reflected the individual agency of millions of people. Of course the political climate matters, but to attribute that huge change in attitude to a single government policy implies that with a different policy population decline would have continued (and that would have been a good thing?). I don't think that's credible, but to claim there was a 'natural process' at work would be equally wrong.

What is common amongst us is that we all, week by week, choose to live here. Very few of us choose to inflict harm on others but the cumulative effect of our millions of personal decisions has, for many years now and increasingly, harmed some of our fellow Londoners by driveing them into debt, into losing their home, into relationship breakdown and eventually into leaving London. Social cleansing of those at the sharp end.

In then end the way I look at gentrification is from a Marxist perspective. ( Though I would not say I am a very good one in practice). Its Capitalism that is the end thats the problem. Its either to be got rid or tamed- as it was post war for a short period. Probably should have made that more clear. Its not just government policy.

Individual agency- people do what they have to get by. Im no saint myself. That is where shades of grey are necessary.

Even if one does not like Marx its not that controversial to look at society being composed of larger forces than that of aggregate of individual decisions.

Given people are not individuals in the sense that all live in (a) society its necessary to look at the larger underlying factors imo.

Marx saw his work as giving individual people the tools to collectively change society. He analysed the underlying forces in society. There are other views. Its what Sociology is about.

Looking at society as being driven by individuals choices which collectively have (unintended) good or bad consequences on others outside there intentional control ,as you do, is in practise taking away peoples agency to change society. Its a view of society that its made up of atomised individuals.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I believe that many people who actively chose to live in Brixton pre 2005 [approxiately] saw Brixton as a life choice with a transcendental meaning, involving a rejection of the consumer society and embracing empathy for the poor, disadvantaged and otherwise marginalised.

Lately on the contrary Brixton appears to be transitioning into a sort of lesser Bullingdon Club orgy of affluence and hedonism beyond the reach of ordinary people.

No more down at heal gay poets squatting in Railton Road. It's all about getting the £1,200 deposit from Daddy so you can rent a shared flat from a well-known Brixton entrepreneur and whoop it up in the Villaage or Pop or whatever. Not forgetting having a moan if you aren't allowed allowed in Brixton beach with your tracksuit bottoms.

That is it for me. Not your geography lesson - it's all about transitioning from fiercely proud rebel to someone who simply doesn't count because now it's not who you are, or what your values are - its how valuable is your bank account.

I'm not sure that there was much transcendental meaning or empathy for the poor about pre millenial brixtionites. Surely it was as mixed here as many other London places. Perhaps there were less stuck up / posh / judgemental people because it wasn't 'fashionable' and there was a perception of Brixton as rough / hard / dangerous. But at least it was cheap, zone 2 and near a tube!

As a queer woman most of London felt dangerous I'm not we counted for much anywhere in Thatchers Britain - but around here at least this area had some queer history and a reputation for tolerance of difference. There are still some queer rebels, poets, muscians and artists living around here - its just fewer now and we're all getting older. Someone refered to me as 'a local character' a while back - fucking cheek.

My only plan is to keep shouting about shit and to intrude on these chichi new places occasionally (when I can afford to) just to remind them we exist.

 

[CH1]

I'm not sure that there was much transcendental meaning or empathy for the poor about pre millenial brixtionites. Surely it was as mixed here as many other London places. Perhaps there were less stuck up / posh / judgemental people because it wasn't 'fashionable' and there was a perception of Brixton as rough / hard / dangerous. But at least it was cheap, zone 2 and near a tube!

Surely Brixton was uniquely ahead of its time in that respect The Brixton Fairies and the South London Gay Community Centre, Brixton 1974-6

 

[Gramsci]

We don't want social cleansing but our own agency reinforces the pressures which cause it, because each of us wants to live in Brixton/London.

Your view is damned if we do damned if we dont. It runs through your posts. Its pessimistic viewpoint.

Its why its so hard to argue against.

 

[Gramsci]

In the 80s and 90s people weren't clamouring to live in Brixton - and taxi drivers didn't even want to go south.
Some of us here, escaped from northern towns in the first place. Please don't send me back!

When I first came to London some of the people I worked with were from Northern towns. This was when Thatcher was busy destroying the North. They moved south not because they really wanted to but because Thatcher was setting out to destroy there communities.

 

[newbie]

Your view is damned if we do damned if we dont. It runs through your posts. Its pessimistic viewpoint.

For that I'm sorry. you tried to put me into one of two camps, neither of which I felt comfortable with so I over explained some of my viewpoint. I'm aware that, on this topic at least, I'm pessimistic &/or cynical. And the last thing I want to do is to post stuff that might sap the will of those actively opposing a process I loath.

 

[Pickman's model]

Your view is damned if we do damned if we dont. It runs through your posts. Its pessimistic viewpoint.

Its why its so hard to argue against.

Miserabilism

 

[newbie]

Even if one does not like Marx its not that controversial to look at society being composed of larger forces than that of aggregate of individual decisions.

yet there are a bunch a recent posts where people give different reasons for coming (and, by extension, remaining) here. The gods eye view doesn't take into account the real lives of real people. None of us willingly surrenders our agency, however much we understand the economic and political forces bearing on us.

 

[editor]

I feel equally ambivalent about the paid-for painting of commercial businesses by street artists*, particularly when it's an estate agents paying for the trendy makeover (see: Coldharbour Lane). Yes, the artwork can sometimes be attractive but at the same time it's very much designed to appeal to a particular demographic and almost always happens just before full on gentrification strikes.


*I think it's a different story if the messages are defending the community, as seen along Atlantic Rd/Station Rd though.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Surely Brixton was uniquely ahead of its time in that respect The Brixton Fairies and the South London Gay Community Centre, Brixton 1974-6

thats what I mean by queer history - I knew one of those fairies on Shakespear rd for many years. Also Brockwell being home to Pride 91, 94 and Europride 1992. And the Fridge host many a lesbian or gay night.

 

[friendofdorothy]

When I first came to London some of the people I worked with were from Northern towns. This was when Thatcher was busy destroying the North. They moved south not because they really wanted to but because Thatcher was setting out to destroy there communities.

I was 'on my bike' in 1984

 

[Gramsci]

For that I'm sorry. you tried to put me into one of two camps, neither of which I felt comfortable with so I over explained some of my viewpoint. I'm aware that, on this topic at least, I'm pessimistic &/or cynical. And the last thing I want to do is to post stuff that might sap the will of those actively opposing a process I loath.

As I posted before I thought you were in the camp that was not happy with gentrification but disagreed as to what causes it. So last post was a bit harsh.

The internet is a blunt instrument and its how your posts could be read. To take it to extreme the idea that its all about individuals making decisions in an atomised way fits in with NuLabour and Thatcherite ideas. Which some here would agree with.

I get criticised for not being nuanced in my views. Well that is what I come here to do. U75 is a left of centre website imo.

Also depends on what forums one is on. On the politics boards Im a moderate. Here Im a right lefty.

 

[newbie]

thats what I mean by queer history - I knew one of those fairies on Shakespear rd for many years. Also Brockwell being home to Pride 91, 94 and Europride 1992. And the Fridge host many a lesbian or gay night.

the organised lesbian/separatist squatted street in Radnor Terrace (all that way away up South Lambeth Road) seems to have been more or less airbrushed out of history, at least so far as google is concerned. It was around the same time, from at least 1972 until demolition in about 1976.

 

[newbie]

As I posted before I thought you were in the camp that was not happy with gentrification but disagreed as to what causes it. So last post was a bit harsh.

The internet is a blunt instrument and its how your posts could be read. To take it to extreme the idea that its all about individuals making decisions in an atomised way fits in with NuLabour and Thatcherite ideas. Which some here would agree with.

No, I'm not happy with it. I wouldn't move to Brixton now.

Of course it's not all about atomised decisions: eg imo major components of the specifics stem back to the explicit decisions to orient Brixton towards the 'night economy' (about which I've long had issues) and to hand over Granville to a trendy PR company. But gentrification started long before either of those, but also long after it happened so much more comprehensively in nearby Clapham. Local circumstances, reflected in the decision making of individuals.

Yet the wider political and economic backdrop was the same, so while the broadbrush blame Thatch, blame Bliar, blame globalisation, blame neoliberalism etc is so obviously true it's equally obviously unsatisfactory as a full explanation of almost anything specific.

I get criticised for not being nuanced in my views. Well that is what I come here to do. U75 is a left of centre website imo.

Also depends on what forums one is on. On the politics boards Im a moderate. Here Im a right lefty.

your views can be as nuanced (or harsh ) as you like, but I seldom see things in binary terms. That said, I know which side I'm on.

 

[CH1]

the organised lesbian/separatist squatted street in Radnor Terrace (all that way away up South Lambeth Road) seems to have been more or less airbrushed out of history, at least so far as google is concerned. It was around the same time, from at least 1972 until demolition in about 1976.

Didn't know about that. When I moved to London in 1977 there was a vibrant organisation in South London called WAGS (Wimbledon Area Gay Society) which started as a community organisation with speaker meetings in the William Morris Hall (Labour HQ) in Wimbledon Broadway and a fortnightly disco in the Merton (council) Hall at South Wimbledon.

There is no information about this at all on the net as far as I can see - but if I may sum it up (since I was involved as a committee member and disco organiser) the orgnaisation was essentially financed by income from the discos - plus a small council grant for a telephone help line.

As happened at this time we had a change of police chief who was homophobic and objected to our license. I had to go to Wimbledon Magistrates court to try to rescue the situation. We had a compromise of a monthly license only, which was not really viable for us, so we turned to various pubs to host the night. The White Lion in Putney was not popular with the punters. One in Colliers Wood likewise.

We though we'd hit the jackpot with the Wheatsheaf at Tooting Bec which was picking up nicely. Unfortunately it turned out the Wheatsheaf was being used by a "glamour photography" group at weekends which was infiltrated and exposed by "The News of the World".

The brewery was not amused - and we were "barred" along with the Glamour photographers.

The final act of this flirtation of the Wimbledon Gays with commercial pressures was when one of our DJs secured a room at the Dog and Fox in Wimbledon Hill. He and the pub then cut WAGS out of the deal to be able to retain the profits of the party going queens for themselves.

Such is the nature of community action. What starts off as something social and community minded ends up being commercially exploited - whether it be an accepting alternative community in Brixton or a bunch of well meaning gays in Wimbledon.

 

[newbie]

Didn't know about that.

pre-web ennit. Nothing happens now without records on wiki, fb, flikr, instagram and so on. As with your story, that bit of social history only exists now in the memories of those who knew and probably a few fading papers hand produced on a Banda or something.

It's not my history, so i don't want to overstep, but for some reason the participants have not felt inspired to record their experiences for google to index for posterity. I don't know why, but I think it's a shame it's been lost, a similar community has quite possibly never existed on that scale before or since.

 

[friendofdorothy]

the organised lesbian/separatist squatted street in Radnor Terrace (all that way away up South Lambeth Road) seems to have been more or less airbrushed out of history, at least so far as google is concerned. It was around the same time, from at least 1972 until demolition in about 1976.

Probably not so much airbrushed as just invisible, as so much LGBTQ life was.

pre-web ennit.

That sums it up.

Very little on the web about the Pride marches that I was involved in and that was as late as 89-91, we really struggled to get press coverage. 25000 on the march and 50000 people in Kennington park and only one small pic in the Sunday Observer. There was the gay press of course, but even that doesn't have a public archive/library. I recall radio/TV coverage only started in 92 and that was only because there had been some gay murders and the media all showed up in Brockwell park.

Just because its not on the web doesn't mean it didn't exist.

 

[CH1]

Just because its not on the web doesn't mean it didn't exist.

I found this obituary fascinating - and only 50% off-topic, as Capital Gay had an office in the Eurolink Centre in Effra Road for a while.
Michael Mason, gay rights campaigner - obituary

 

[newbie]

Probably not so much airbrushed as just invisible, as so much LGBTQ life was.

my slight surprise is that the participants haven't celebrated (or critiqued, or just remembered) what they built.

I liked the ones in Kennington Park

 

[friendofdorothy]

my slight surprise is that the participants haven't celebrated (or critiqued, or just remembered) what they built.

I liked the ones in Kennington Park

I went to a fantabulousa cabaret event this year- lots of celebrating, critiquing and remembering there. Most people old enough to have gay sex in the 70s, the internet probably isn't the place for them to do anything. I'm younger but have no idea how to do most web things. There are bits of queer history here and there. eg A Brighton based memories project recorded interviews with older LGBT people some years ago. We may have to wait for someone to scan some gay archives, which might need extensive funding so don't hold your breath.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I found this obituary fascinating - and only 50% off-topic, as Capital Gay had an office in the Eurolink Centre in Effra Road for a while.
Michael Mason, gay rights campaigner - obituary

thanks for posting that - I recall meeting him once. Where they in the the Eurolink centre after the firebombing? where they there long?

 

[friendofdorothy]

Recalling anarchist squats has anyone mentioned the 121 squat on Railton rd? Remember going to some fairly worthy vegan lesbian separatist evenings there in mid '80s.

Thought it was very sad when they evicted them all a few year ago. It looks like very dull ordinary flats now.

 

[cuppa tee]

I expect it's just you and some posters.

hold up lets have a look at your original post and see.......................

One of the least "gentrified" streets in Brixton is pedestrian Electric Avenue.

Agree, but......

Gentrification will no doubt come (it's being smartened up as we speak)

again agreed, public realm improvements will lead to higher rents and it's character will change.......

And when it does it may eventually become the poshest street in Brixton, because of the handsome and fairly unique architecture

can't argue with that, an iconic and vibrant address too, and handy for the tube, but the architecture is kind of irrelevant to the people who use it now

But no one can say that it was its pedestrianisation which kicked it off

we will have to disagree slightly here because the fact its pedestrianised will definitely make it attractive to new money

Or that pedestrianisation hasn't served retailers and shoppers at the lower end of the economic spectrum well for a long time.

IMHO this sentence has an air of finality to it and given your earlier prediction, it could be construed as not giving a shit, as if that time is now over, a shrug of the shoulders, time to move on......

Incidentally, it is remarkably dead at night.

yes, but no doubt this will change with the arrival of posh apartments and cafe society that you have predicted.......just like Soho as mentioned by Gramsci and many other parts of London

Seems like you read that meaning into 90% of everything written on here by "certain posters", so it doesn't actually matter which sentence you're talking about.

75% of what is written by "certain posters' [ your words not mine] is real or tacit approval of gentrification, another 10% is making out its effects are overstated

 

[CH1]

thanks for posting that - I recall meeting him once. Where they in the the Eurolink centre after the firebombing? where they there long?

I can't be definitive about the years. What I do remember is one of their staff turning up at some council meeting for businesses (similar to what has now become BID) and having a good old moan about security in the Eurolink (meaning it was very prone to burglaries - and they had lost a lot of computers). That was probably in 1994.

The arson attack was in 1987 - when they were somewhere else. Quite possibly Capital Gay moved to Eurolink after the arson attack, but I am not at all sure of any dates.

Somewhere I filed away the last copy of Capital Gay, but can't find it right now. If I could it would presumably confirm if they were still in Brixton up to when publication ceased on 1st June 1995.

The most interesting thing about the Eurolink (apart from it used to house Captial Gay) is it used to be a Synagogue:
JCR-UK: Brixton (United) Synagogue (closed), Effra Road, Brixton, London SW2, England

 

[Rushy]

The most interesting thing about the Eurolink (apart from it used to house Captial Gay) is it used to be a Synagogue:
JCR-UK: Brixton (United) Synagogue (closed), Effra Road, Brixton, London SW2, England
View attachment 93132

Possibly the worst death masking of a building ever. I actually think the functionality of neighbouring Halfords might be more attractive!

My first flat in Brixton had modest stained windows recovered from the synagogue gracing the first floor outside WC.

 

[Rushy]

hold up lets have a look at your original post and see.......................

Agree, but......

again agreed, public realm improvements will lead to higher rents and it's character will change.......

can't argue with that, an iconic and vibrant address too, and handy for the tube, but the architecture is kind of irrelevant to the people who use it now

we will have to disagree slightly here because the fact its pedestrianised will definitely make it attractive to new money

IMHO this sentence has an air of finality to it and given your earlier prediction, it could be construed as not giving a shit, as if that time is now over, a shrug of the shoulders, time to move on......

yes, but no doubt this will change with the arrival of posh apartments and cafe society that you have predicted.......just like Soho as mentioned by Gramsci and many other parts of London

75% of what is written by "certain posters' [ your words not mine] is real or tacit approval of gentrification, another 10% is making out its effects are overstated

Ok. Maybe my response should have read You, "some posters" and various people Gramsci met all over London who were hotly discussing my post.

 

[CH1]

Possibly the worst death masking of a building ever. I actually think the functionality of neighbouring Halfords might be more attractive!

My first flat in Brixton had modest stained windows recovered from the synagogue gracing the first floor outside WC.

I guess you probably have had time to consider the aesthetic qualities of the "death masking" as you put it from your bathroom window every day.
Hope your mate does a better job with the Walton Lodge Laundry.