Keeping Brixton Crap: our public realm

[Rushy]

I guess you probably have had time to consider the aesthetic qualities of the "death masking" as you put it from your bathroom window every day.
Hope your mate does a better job with the Walton Lodge Laundry.

Not really. The WC to which I refer was in a first floor flat on Tunstall Road with a view over the old armature and rewinders factory. Glass was installed by the squatters who then bought the squatted building from Lambeth (for next to nothing because it was squatted), converted it into flats, one of which they which they sold to a barrister and the other to a Cambridge Dr of music in the early 90s before moving to the country.

Chill a bit, fella. You are needlessly (and incorrectly) personalising everything a bit much at the moment.

 

[newbie]

the architecture is kind of irrelevant to the people who use it now

I use it, I want the canopies back, like we were promised.

 

[campanula]

Sigh - I lived/squatted in Clapham in 1974 - used to sign on in Brixton. Loved it. There will always be a 'Brixton of the heart', separate from Brixton the geographical location and political nexus. Like a lot of liminal spaces, edgy lifestyles, the middle classes always envied a certain rebel freedom - sought to tame/monetise it (festivals!)...we move on. Cambridge circa 1976 - boho, squatting again, green, leafy, lovely - all gone. A sad investment opportunity of student accommodation scams - time to move on again. Norfolk beckons - no good rail link yet, no motorway, true, no great bookshops, cafes, and nightlife (who cares). Maybe even full circle back up north.
Brixton...or anywhere, is people.

Not particularly relevant when facing eviction from untenable rent rises...but what made Brixton special and even a bit unique was not found in prettified public spaces.

 

[newbie]

I use it, I want the canopies back, like we were promised.

but, to pre-empt anyone else, of course that demand is for accelerated gentrification, because the canopies won't just make it more pleasant to buy cabbages or yams, they'll encourage all the rest of it.


eek, I seem to have said much the same thing in 2004

I remember hassling someone from Brixton Challenge about this, however long ago that was...I'd love to see them restored... they looked a bit embarrassed and mumbled about more pressing priorities and in the fullness of time.

Mind you, given the crumbling nature of the buildings themselves, they may well have a point. Who owns the buildings and when are they destined to play their part in the plans?

I wonder what restoration would mean.

I have a vision of a designer somewhere sketching a beautifully restored Victorian crescent thronged with shoppers meandering between the jewellery and designer clothes stalls, pausing for a cappuchino at one of the cafes, sitting either in the sun or shaded by a canopy.

 

[urbanspaceman]

Does anyone know what became of the canopies ? Were they destroyed, or are they dumped in the countryside somewhere ? Like the stonework of the Euston Arch lying at the bottom of the River Lea.

 

[CH1]

Does anyone know what became of the canopies ? Were they destroyed, or are they dumped in the countryside somewhere ? Like the stonework of the Euston Arch lying at the bottom of the River Lea.

I don't think anyone knows. But there's some spare canopies coming up shortly from Vauxhall Bus Station.

 

[Angellic]

I don't think anyone knows. But there's some spare canopies coming up shortly from Vauxhall Bus Station.

It's going?

 

[Rushy]

It's going?

Creating a new High Street, I believe.

 

[editor]

Does anyone know what became of the canopies ? Were they destroyed, or are they dumped in the countryside somewhere ? Like the stonework of the Euston Arch lying at the bottom of the River Lea.

The persistent rumour was that they were stored somewhere with the promise of eventual reinstatement, but given the decrepit state of them by the end, I suspect they were just trashed, more's the pity.

 

[technical]

How long since they were in situ? Don't recall ever seeing them in my time here

 

[CH1]

How long since they were in situ? Don't recall ever seeing them in my time here

Probably all taken down in 1982. But even so some portions had already gone by then.

 

[Angellic]

Creating a new High Street, I believe.

I'd heard there were options but not seen any updates recently. Shall consult the World Wide Web.

 

[newbie]

According to the paper version of yesterdays Standard, 57% of sales in each of Peckham and Brixton go to first time buyers, the highest proportions in London. The price difference between the two is eye watering. Despite being far higher than everywhere on the list except NW3, prices in Brixton are apparently growing faster than almost everywhere else.

Is that because of, or in spite of, the public realm?

 

[teuchter]

Interesting, although comparing SW2 and SE15 doesn't quite amount to a comparison of "Brixton" and "Peckham".

SW2, SW9, SE24, SE5, not even on the list.

SW2 wraps along Brockwell Park - maybe this public realm element contributes to the high prices? A solution would be to turn the park into a car park, perhaps? This could bump up traffic in the area generally, and increase the number of cycling gentrifiers killed each year.

 

[newbie]

Interesting, although comparing SW2 and SE15 doesn't quite amount to a comparison of "Brixton" and "Peckham".

SW2, SW9, SE24, SE5, not even on the list.

yes, I knew someone would make the point that SW9 is not on the list at all, but then nor is SW16, Streatham, which seems to me like it ought to be more fertile territory for FTBs than super expensive Brixton.

The park and the tube are both obvious factors, but are they really sufficient to cause FTBs to pay a premium of over a quarter of a million quid just to be in Brixton SW2 rather than Peckham (which, after all, has the Rye and rail links)? I'm afraid I don't know any recent FTBs well enough to ask, and I doubt any will explain their reasoning on here.

Because maybe none of the public- or private- realm stuff matters, the key factor is that prices here have increased by 20% in a year.

 

[Rushy]

yes, I knew someone would make the point that SW9 is not on the list at all, but then nor is SW16, Streatham, which seems to me like it ought to be more fertile territory for FTBs than super expensive Brixton.

The park and the tube are both obvious factors, but are they really sufficient to cause FTBs to pay a premium of over a quarter of a million quid just to be in Brixton SW2 rather than Peckham (which, after all, has the Rye and rail links)? I'm afraid I don't know any recent FTBs well enough to ask, and I doubt any will explain their reasoning on here.

Because maybe none of the public- or private- realm stuff matters, the key factor is that prices here have increased by 20% in a year.

Yet if you look at Zoopla it says 4%.
I really don't believe there have been 20% rises here in the past year. It would be interesting to know where they get their figures from.

 

[newbie]

Yet if you look at Zoopla it says 4%.
I really don't believe there have been 20% rises here in the past year. It would be interesting to know where they get their figures from.

the article seems to rely on a report by David Fell from Hamptons International, but I can't find the report on their website.

i wonder if the 4%/20% discrepancy is between overall prices and prices (for flats) paid by FTBs? dunno, I was taking the figures on their face value, I'm not going to try to stand them up.

 

[Rushy]

the article seems to rely on a report by David Fell from Hamptons International, but I can't find the report on their website.

i wonder if the 4%/20% discrepancy is between overall prices and prices (for flats) paid by FTBs? dunno, I was taking the figures on their face value, I'm not going to try to stand them up.

Even so, I'd be surprised. But possibly. Might just be out of date data.

 

[bimble]

Average first time buyer price for a flat in Brixton £650,000? That can't be right (I mean I think it's a mistake).

 

[teuchter]

Average first time buyer price for a flat in Brixton £650,000? That can't be right (I mean I think it's a mistake).

It's not clear if its average for all FTBs or just ones that are flats.

 

[bimble]

But it says 97 % of first time buyers in Brixton bought flats. It has to be wrong somewhere.

 

[newbie]

Average first time buyer price for a flat in Brixton £650,000? That can't be right (I mean I think it's a mistake).

in the Evening Standard? how can that be????

I think you must be right, the first couple of pages of SW2 flats on Zoppla reveal nothing that expensive.

All I can say in my defence is that I'm not a regular reader of property porn pages, I just noticed the table as I flicked through and was rather gobsmacked at the scale of difference between here and Peckham..

 

[teuchter]

But it says 97 % of first time buyers in Brixton bought flats. It has to be wrong somewhere.

Yes you're right. Maybe for every 97 FTBs who buy a £450,000 flat, there are 3 others who buy a £7 million mansion?

 

[editor]

I'd hate to work out the percentage for the rise in flat prices in my block. Sky high would probably cover it, though.

 

[teuchter]

From an LJ thread...

regarding a proposal by this charity

One person said to me that tennis is what the Council want as it will attract the well off to LJ.

I don't know anything about the charity. But it seems their aim is to allow as broad a mix of people as possible to play tennis. I wonder if the person who made the above comment to Gramsci made any effort to find out about them. Isn't this the problem with all this.... it ends up with any attempt to change things being written off as negative, in a kind of unthinking way? It's verging on conspiracy theory.

 

[Winot]

Saw that post. Thought of this thread.

 

[Gramsci]

From an LJ thread...

regarding a proposal by this charity



I don't know anything about the charity. But it seems their aim is to allow as broad a mix of people as possible to play tennis. I wonder if the person who made the above comment to Gramsci made any effort to find out about them. Isn't this the problem with all this.... it ends up with any attempt to change things being written off as negative, in a kind of unthinking way? It's verging on conspiracy theory.

They were there at the event. So I assume they had found out about them.

Yes there is a general lack of trust on the estate with any improvements. A suspicion that this Council - run by New Labour - does not support them but wants the area "regenerated" to get the better off in. The example that gets used is what has happened to Brixton- Pop, the arches, etc. No need to get into complicated discussions about Pop as here on the Pop thread. They see it for what it is and what it represents to them. And they do not want it.

Also when I was at the Saturday event Cressingham was brought up (not by me I was just listening). Feeling that Council housing is under threat in the long term. That if it was not for LEMB running the estate the Council would be eyeing up there land for development. As they are with the Adventure playground.

There is also the feeling that things are done to them but they are not asked. This came out in the road closure issue but I think is something thats been festering for years.New Labour have run Lambeth for years and there is no real connection between the people on the estate - there core constituency- and the Labour party in Lambeth. Why Rachel broke ranks in the end with New Labour. Coldharbour is defined as a Ward , despite changes in central Brixton , still working class. I dont like the word deprived.

I do not think its verging on conspiracy theory. The feeling I got , which I have a lot of sympathy for, is that there community is under threat in the long term. On that I think they are correct. Its imo a class issue. Though this being Brixton race and class are linked. Not surprising that a lot of the people in my photos of the event are black. So some will say race is bigger issue.

 

[teuchter]

We know all this.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They were there at the event. So I assume they had found out about them.

Yes there is a general lack of trust on the estate with any improvements. A suspicion that this Council - run by New Labour - does not support them but wants the area "regenerated" to get the better off in. The example that gets used is what has happened to Brixton- Pop, the arches, etc. No need to get into complicated discussions about Pop as here on the Pop thread. They see it for what it is and what it represents to them. And they do not want it.

Also when I was at the Saturday event Cressingham was brought up (not by me I was just listening). Feeling that Council housing is under threat in the long term. That if it was not for LEMB running the estate the Council would be eyeing up there land for development. As they are with the Adventure playground.

It's a reasonable supposition, borne out by the various TMOs and RMOs I've been in contact with - external management makes pulling flankers a lot harder because it means having to appease a whole board, not just (possibly) a couple of ward Councillors. Cressingham are continuing to pursue Right to Manage and Right to Transfer partly for that reason, and because Right to Transfer would help facilitate The People's Plan.

There is also the feeling that things are done to them but they are not asked. This came out in the road closure issue but I think is something thats been festering for years.New Labour have run Lambeth for years and there is no real connection between the people on the estate - there core constituency- and the Labour party in Lambeth. Why Rachel broke ranks in the end with New Labour. Coldharbour is defined as a Ward , despite changes in central Brixton , still working class. I dont like the word deprived.

Residents of this borough aren't asked, they're "consulted". They're "heard", but they're not listened to. Lambeth Labour continue with their ill-judged plans in spite of opposition because these plans are only meant to - at the most - indirectly benefit the likes of you and me. They're to benefit the position and status of Councillors and officers, and facilitate their career development.

I do not think its verging on conspiracy theory. The feeling I got , which I have a lot of sympathy for, is that there community is under threat in the long term. On that I think they are correct. Its imo a class issue. Though this being Brixton race and class are linked. Not surprising that a lot of the people in my photos of the event are black. So some will say race is bigger issue.

"Working class" is the largest constituent class for blacks in Britain. As you say, here - and in many inner cities - class and race have strong links, so it's unsurprising that some people detect an undercurrent of racism with regard to council policy and practice.

 

[Gramsci]

It's a reasonable supposition, borne out by the various TMOs and RMOs I've been in contact with - external management makes pulling flankers a lot harder because it means having to appease a whole board, not just (possibly) a couple of ward Councillors. Cressingham are continuing to pursue Right to Manage and Right to Transfer partly for that reason, and because Right to Transfer would help facilitate The People's Plan.



Residents of this borough aren't asked, they're "consulted". They're "heard", but they're not listened to. Lambeth Labour continue with their ill-judged plans in spite of opposition because these plans are only meant to - at the most - indirectly benefit the likes of you and me. They're to benefit the position and status of Councillors and officers, and facilitate their career development.



"Working class" is the largest constituent class for blacks in Britain. As you say, here - and in many inner cities - class and race have strong links, so it's unsurprising that some people detect an undercurrent of racism with regard to council policy and practice.

Agree with you on the estate mge in Lambeth. Its worth bearing in mind this is not the case elsewhere. Was talking to someone I know who used to work in Camden. For ideological reasons the Labour party in Camden did not support EMB or ALMOs. I noticed an old 60s estate on Yorkway near Kings Cross is being refurbished. My friend told me that the Camden Council are doing it with Council tenants staying on. I was amazed. Lambeth Labour is very Blairite/ Progress. This is not the same in other area.

So dont agree with you on its just about there careers. In Lambeth they are so Blairite that they never liked the working class and Council housing. Its ideological difference between them and Camden Labour. They really believe in what they are doing. They see Corbyn as a short term disaster who will fail for there "centre" politics to come back.Which of course are not centre politics. They are more like Cameronite Tories. "We" all know that there is deprivation and inequality." We" all know the issues. But we arent really going to do anything that upsets the "centre" ground voter. A few sops thats all.

Lambeth Labour are a party of the "centre" ground. Its the so called "centre" ground who drive there policies.

Pop is good example. Bars and eateries for the well off with , if your lucky , some projects for the deserving poor.

Projects like that are resented on the LJ Estate.

On race. Yes its interesting issue. What I see on the LJ estate and in Brixton is that people of Afro Caribbean descent see the gentrification of London as a class issue first. Well the people I bump into. Which I see as a positive thing. Whilst Brixton is becoming more white they see the difference between class and race. Not just blaming it on race.