Humberto
minor kerfuffles ensue
You don’t much go for Revelation 1:14-15, then.
fuck me!
You don’t much go for Revelation 1:14-15, then.
BUMP
Excellent lecture here, fact filled, peer-reviewed....includes some early christian and pre-chrisitan history which makes the case the jesus didnt exist at all very convincingly. the fact that there was already a Jesus that existed in Jewish angelography, and an angel in direct opposition to Satan at that, I found particularly interesting. Too much here to summarise at this time of the morning
The spear wound in the side is suspiciously similar to Prometheus' wound where his liver keeps getting eaten. He too was strung up by his arms in penance for assisting mankind.You could derren brown most of the miracles attributed to yeshua ben joseph but the rising from the dead after being crucified one is beyond even derens powers imo. Spear in the side remember, no getting out of that one without some heavenly assistance
I'm coming to the conclusion that at best there was a guy living around this time who's life and actions got turned into something that if he wouldn't even recognise that it was him they were talking about.
The correspondences between Loki and Lucifer are also notable.Odin hanging from the world tree.
for 9 days. 3x3. Also Baldr and his rebirth.Odin hanging from the world tree.
Have you read The Dragonbone Chair, by Tad Williams? (Tolkien-esque fantasy) In that, the fantasy Jesus-equivalent is hanged from a tree instead of crucified, and the main symbol of the religion is the Tree instead of the Cross.for 9 days. 3x3. Also Baldr and his rebirth.
Ill see if theres an epub when I'm done with Rivers of LondonHave you read The Dragonbone Chair, by Tad Williams? (Tolkien-esque fantasy) In that, the fantasy Jesus-equivalent is hanged from a tree instead of crucified, and the main symbol of the religion is the Tree instead of the Cross.
It was the first series I read where the setting was almost explicitly based on real places, so there's an Anglo-Saxon bit, a Welsh bit, Vikings, and a Rome (former Imperial capital and now the seat of the church).Ill see if theres an epub when I'm done with Rivers of London
There are surviving complete manuscripts of gospels that predate the Roman Empire's official adoption of Christianity.A lot of the stuff about him that is harder to believe does align with legends/beliefs that existed prior to Christianity - almost as if they just bolted on different elements to make him appeal to Roman citizens.
Counterpoint: It's not the same as the Loch Ness Monster Myth Theory. It's actually quite different and there's a reasonable body of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus.
Had to look up 'syncretism'. Everyday's a schoolday, so cheers!There's undoubtedly an element of syncretism in the development of Christianity, but I don't think that is strong evidence against the existence of a historical Jesus.
Myth???It's the same as the Loch Ness Monster Myth Theory. Someone once said they saw something, which they may or may not have, which they said thought was something, which it may or may not have been. The rest is just Chinese whispers and manipulation for benefit.
It's completely fucking nuts that there is still anyone who believes anything more than that as factual
It's interesting though.Does it actually matter if there really was a bloke called Jesus who did some unknown things, which later got blown out of all proportion?
It would matter if there was a literal Biblical Jesus who did the things literally described. Unless all that is true, though, whatever’s left over is irrelevant.
Think it's a bit more matter of degrees than an either/or - if there was a teacher wandering around Palestine with a heterodox version of Judaism and making claims about being the messiah/giving the sermon on the mount it would be more significant than your bog standard religious enthusiast drawing a crowd. Why the new message, why did it catch on etc? Those theories about salvationist aspects being a draw in a slave empire, for example.Does it actually matter if there really was a bloke called Jesus who did some unknown things, which later got blown out of all proportion?
It would matter if there was a literal Biblical Jesus who did the things literally described. Unless all that is true, though, whatever’s left over is irrelevant.
Those debates were quite something and I still can't quite nail the difference between monophysites and miaphysites.two natures in one individual
Well, whether or not there was an actual teacher doing those things, there were certainly people later that did those things, but just in the name of that (fictional or otherwise) teacher. So all your questions still apply and are still interesting, regardless.Think it's a bit more matter of degrees than an either/or - if there was a teacher wandering around Palestine with a heterodox version of Judaism and making claims about being the messiah/giving the sermon on the mount it would be more significant than your bog standard religious enthusiast drawing a crowd. Why the new message, why did it catch on etc? Those theories about salvationist aspects being a draw in a slave empire, for example.
True, and I think in the long run it's the material/social background that matters but i do think individual persons and events can push history a bit to one way or another with lasting consequences.Well, whether or not there was an actually teacher doing those things, there were certainly people later that did those things, but just in the name of that (fictional or otherwise) teacher. So all your questions still apply and are still interesting, regardless.
Religions, you mean? And the material circumstances that produce them? I can grok that.Can't we just agree that the whole thing is really very interesting?