belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
One is allowed to have been married once if one did so before entering the ministry.
Jesus Myth Theory
- Thread starter N_igma
- Start date
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
There isn't.
PTK
Paul Kegan
My mother told me that when she was a child she thought that Julius Caesar was a character invented by Shakespeare.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Cleopatra raved about him in her salad days.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
He certainly did a good line in misogyny. And more general sourness.
Power struggle won by Paul, decided the issue of whether Jesus movement were reformist Jews or splitters.
Early Christianity was unlikely to attract misogynists.
There is though.
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Oh no there's not... etc....
He's behind you.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
No he's not. He never existed.
O rly? Then where did the world come from?
All those letters to the poor Corinthians though. (((Corinthians)))
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Indeed. There were of course mythical accretions to his story. As indeed there have been with everyone from Elvis to Paul McCartney to Marc Almond. But he - and they - existed.
Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia
Sources for the historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia
I’ve referenced scholarly books in my collection in the past. I’ll find them again if anyone is interested.
For the record, I’m an atheist, I don’t believe in deities, I don’t think the historical Jesus (Yeshua Ben Yosef) was a deity. I think he was a preacher who created an impact and as a result myths grew around him.
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
Thanks for the links. Sorry danny la rouge I forgot to add the quote.
I think there's a lot hanging on 'was Jesus a real person' and whilst it doesn't matter to me, it matters a whole lot to a whole load of people who (and this is key) have a great deal invested in it, emotionally, culturally and intellectually. I've spent years looking for proof of Jesus-as-a-real-person, I've been doing it all my life because at one time I too had a lot invested in the matter. I've read those wiki articles there and there's nothing I (along with everyone else) haven't encountered before - but what really matters is there's nothing conclusive, or even really convincing. Which, when I consider the stature of this man (if man he was) is astonishing.
So yeah sure, it's possible to believe Jesus was a real bloke, billions do, and if you don't look too hard at the evidence, fluff a few may-have-beens into probably-was's and ignore the fact that for hundreds of years thousands of scholars have made it their lives' works to prove Jesus was real and still haven't come up with anything better than may-have-beens in the acres of Christian and Flavian propaganda, it's an easy belief.
tl;dr, not good enough, unless you want it to be true.
I think there's a lot hanging on 'was Jesus a real person' and whilst it doesn't matter to me, it matters a whole lot to a whole load of people who (and this is key) have a great deal invested in it, emotionally, culturally and intellectually. I've spent years looking for proof of Jesus-as-a-real-person, I've been doing it all my life because at one time I too had a lot invested in the matter. I've read those wiki articles there and there's nothing I (along with everyone else) haven't encountered before - but what really matters is there's nothing conclusive, or even really convincing. Which, when I consider the stature of this man (if man he was) is astonishing.
So yeah sure, it's possible to believe Jesus was a real bloke, billions do, and if you don't look too hard at the evidence, fluff a few may-have-beens into probably-was's and ignore the fact that for hundreds of years thousands of scholars have made it their lives' works to prove Jesus was real and still haven't come up with anything better than may-have-beens in the acres of Christian and Flavian propaganda, it's an easy belief.
tl;dr, not good enough, unless you want it to be true.
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
I should add that this
Is a totally retconned name, and I find it super annoying.
Is a totally retconned name, and I find it super annoying.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Is there so much hanging on it? My position is that whether or not a historical Jesus existed, the stories about him are all from long after he died and are just that, stories. They're not historical accounts of what he did or said.
The one that surprised me more, when I looked into it wrt his historical existence, is Mohammed. He's on far shakier ground than Jesus.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
Not sure about that. I'd put him closer to the Robin Hood end of the historicity scale than the Santa Claus end.
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
Apart from Christianity and everything made by Christianity, perhaps not.
JimW
支那暗杀团
I don't get sketchy evidence being astonishing mojo pixy, think we've noted before he came from a social milieu that would have left few records or artefacts and only became significant beyond that later. In that sense, even wobbly proofs seem telling.
Plus there's that tea towel with his face on it.
Plus there's that tea towel with his face on it.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I'm with lbj, there's not really much hanging on it. If Jesus was real that doesn't prove or disprove Christianity. Like many people I think he was probably real but was just some bloke.
Now if you could conclusively prove that he wasn't real, that would be a different matter, but since it's pretty damn hard to prove such a negative claim I don't believe it will ever happen.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The important hurdle, imo, is to recognise that the thing called Christianity is not based on 'the words of Jesus' whether or not said Jesus really existed.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
There is also a whole Youtube-osphere of similar about Mohammed, Islam, Quiblas etc. Except the penalties are higher - especially for apostasy.
I find it fascinating that you are about to settle down to watch a video showing that Mecca didn't exist in 632 AD and you get served an advert for Islamic car loans!
As regards Jesus really existing - Bart Ehrman is surely the author/YouTuber with most investment in this (if you discount churches themselves).
I am fascinated by the Community of Christ - Toronto branch.
This is a reformed Mormon sect which broke away from the Brigham Young Mormons. The Toronton church has an online lecture on religion or philosophy on Youtube every Tuesday - and on Sundays a YouTube service broadcast.
The Minister is gay and they have lessons read by various minorities including trans people.
Its all super liberal stuff. They do have doctrine - and unlike the LDS (Mormons) they accept the Trinity - so I guess the Community of Christ is a bit like the Unitarians with added Trinity.
The lectures tend to stray into various Gnostic groups quite a lot.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
It’s a retranslation. He wouldn’t have had a Greek version of a Hebrew name.
