Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[agricola]

I don't buy the millieu thesis. It's surely the other way round. He finds himself in this millieu because he is comfortable with it, not because he is blind to its excesses which he then absorbs drip by drip. He sees the excesses, probably thinks they go a bit too far but also probably thinks there is a kernel of truth to them.

You could say that about most of the senior people involved in this though; for example the Labour right appear to have no issues dealing with a group of people who want to scare British Jews into leaving the UK for Israel and then scare them into voting Likud when they get there.

 

[Knotted]

That's not news. Why even bother.

 

[teqniq]

Israeli attorney files FOIA request to determine govt role in anti-Corbyn campaign

 

[danny la rouge]

It was clumsy and badly delivered but he was referring to their apparent difficulty as native English speakers in understanding "English irony" as used by a non-native speaker. He seems to be saying he doesn't believe their grasp of English is as poor as they were making out when they were "berating" Hassassian.

[...]he wasn't saying they weren't properly English, he was saying they were.

Why not just say they have no grasp of irony, then? Why qualify that? English irony?

If he didn't want to draw attention to their nationality, why bring it up?

 

[bimble]

I can't check now but is it true that this was JC's preamble to the bit about those few specific zionists he was apparently talking about?
If so then tbh its worse than i thought.

do you see it now- who is "them"?


eta. this is a thread explaining:
(you have to click to read the whole thing).

 

[Toast Rider]

I can't check now but is it true that this was JC's preamble to the bit about those few specific zionists he was apparently talking about?
If so then tbh its worse than i thought. View attachment 145096

do you see it now- who is "them"?


eta. this is a thread explaining:
(you have to click to read the whole thing).

See what? It sounds like he'strying to say Zionism has caused a lot of problems for jewish people, or put theminto a difficult position. I don't see anything nefarious about that use of 'them', it's just common speech surely?

 

[hot air baboon]

Israeli attorney files FOIA request to determine govt role in anti-Corbyn campaign

Jonathan Cook re the above

Is Israel's hand behind the attacks on Jeremy Corbyn?


One Labour activist, who did not wish to be named given the purges taking place inside the party, told MEE: "Corbyn is up against an unholy, ad hoc alliance of right-wing MPs in both the Labour and Tory parties, the Israeli government and its lobbyists, the British security services and the media.

"They have settled on anti-Semitism as the best weapon to use against him because it is such a taboo issue. It's like quicksand. The more he struggles against the claims, the more he gets sucked down into the mire."

 

[tim]

Jonathan Cook re the above

Is Israel's hand behind the attacks on Jeremy Corbyn?


One Labour activist, who did not wish to be named given the purges taking place inside the party, told MEE: "Corbyn is up against an unholy, ad hoc alliance of right-wing MPs in both the Labour and Tory parties, the Israeli government and its lobbyists, the British security services and the media.

"They have settled on anti-Semitism as the best weapon to use against him because it is such a taboo issue. It's like quicksand. The more he struggles against the claims, the more he gets sucked down into the mire."

Things are noving on from Anti-Semitism. He's now being seen aa the eminence grise behind the Warrington bombings
David Aaronovitch

@DAaronovitch

Finally, for a completely different reason, I've been going back over the 1993 Warrington bombing. There's a big possibility that it was carried out by far-left people associated with a group called Red Action. I offer no prizes for which Labour figure was close to Red Action.
12:13 pm · 26 Aug 2018

 

[Riklet]

Any more specific peeps outa him and they should sue the smug warmongering cunt for libel and really take him to the cleaners.

 

[planetgeli]

Things are noving on from Anti-Semitism. He's now being seen aa the eminence grise behind the Warrington bombings
David Aaronovitch

@DAaronovitch

Finally, for a completely different reason, I've been going back over the 1993 Warrington bombing. There's a big possibility that it was carried out by far-left people associated with a group called Red Action. I offer no prizes for which Labour figure was close to Red Action.
12:13 pm · 26 Aug 2018

“For a completely different reason...”. Because MI5 asked you to? First class cunt. Special Branch didn’t just infiltrate his dad’s party they went full on for the family too didn’t they.

 

[Knotted]

1. I
   

   I can't check now but is it true that this was JC's preamble to the bit about those few specific zionists he was apparently talking about?
   If so then tbh its worse than i thought. View attachment 145096
   
   do you see it now- who is "them"?
   
   
   eta. this is a thread explaining:
   (you have to click to read the whole thing).
   

The "for example" is key. He is clearly talking about "Zionists" not all Jews, but it is also clearly a cultural criticism not a political criticism.

It's a weird position but there is a kernel of truth to it ie. the Zionist doctrine of the negation of the diaspora. But that doctrine has been quietly swept under the carpet, the true believers having emigrated to Israel long ago. The core point is that Zionism had made Jews so culturally alien that they can't understand irony. It's preposterous, but it also underscores certain additional expectations that Corbyn places on Jews (and probably others). If you are white, protestant and reactionary and anti-trade union, that does not make you un-English.

Note also that progressive and English are closely tied. This very typical of social democrats. Nationalism is inherent in their outlook, even with Corbyn.

 

[Ole]

Everything is fucking fucked. I just feel so sorry for my people who need a working-class electoral force.

Pardon my outburst.

 

[Ole]

I don't think he's racist. And in strict electoral terms, if he is, this sort of racism is irrelevant. I think he's the spearhead of a lot of unexamined thinking that needs to be brought to light and that can be changed by doing so. The wider milieu - well, I have no such hope, having been butting heads with them for near three decades.

I fear this is right...

 

[Toast Rider]

Good luck challenging it. All it's done, when I've tried, is generate more heartache

 

[redcogs]

Keep the faith comrades. i know its a bit trite to say it - but.. We have reason and truth and human decency batting for our side, the other fuckers have only lies falsehoods and worse of all hatred.

Gotta be optimistic for better days?

 

[Kaka Tim]

"A big possibility" that red action carried out the warrington bombing? who says? based on what? And what was corbyn's relation with them? Was at the same demo of 20,000 people once?

 

[teqniq]

Based on a Wikipediea edit, it would seem:

 

[not-bono-ever]

Corbyn aside, Aaronovitch is an awful cunt

 

[Toast Rider]

Keep the faith comrades. i know its a bit trite to say it - but.. We have reason and truth and human decency batting for our side, the other fuckers have only lies falsehoods and worse of all hatred.

Gotta be optimistic for better days?

I hope see, because I don't see any of that. Instead it's just aggressive denial, shitposting and insta-blocking. There's no debate when the people you talk to just block you or smear you as being part of the right wing agenda.

 

[Toast Rider]

"A big possibility" that red action carried out the warrington bombing? who says? based on what? And what was corbyn's relation with them? Was at the same demo of 20,000 people once?

You won't get an answer. This is what's so shitty about social media. Scumbags who shitpost can do so without consequence. They can sit in their little thought yurts shitting out fact-free claims completely divorced from the kind of accountability you'd get in face to face conversation

 

[brogdale]

You won't get an answer. This is what's so shitty about social media. Scumbags who shitpost can do so without consequence. They can sit in their little though yurts shitting out fact-free claims completely divorced from the kind of accountability you'd get in face to face conversation

Yurts?

 

[Kaka Tim]

urban thread here - Warrington Bomb Linked to Red Action - BBC News

 

[Kaka Tim]

having a quick perusal - it looks like dubious bbc doc by attention seeking "undercover" journo donald macantyre. Ayotallah pretty comprehensively debunks it. The fact that the PIRA claimed responsibility for warrington is pretty big hurdle to get over in the credibility stakes.
Relationship to Corbyn? about as strong as his link to the royal family or brinks matt bullion robbery - i.e. nill. Desperate shit stirring by aronavitch for which he should be hung out to dry.

This programme is utter , politically illiterate, shite. Ex Red Action members can defend themselves , but , Jesus ! ... just how much (possibly libellous) shite it is may not be obvious to people who aren't aware of the political divisions within Republicanism during the armed struggle in Northern Ireland, including the 1990's period of the Warrington atrocity. For those not au fait with the Warrington bombings , two episodes; a bombing of gas storage units on 25th Feb. 1993, by a Provisional IRA active service unit - followed by shoot out with cops - two of three members of unit arrested - and eventually jailed. Second episode - 20 march 93 - bombs went off in litter bins in busy street killing two - noone apprehended - The IRA later claimed they gave a warning which was ignored.

From Wikipedia:

The day after the bombing, the Provisional IRA admitted that its members had planted the bombs. In a statement, it said:
"Responsibility for the tragic and deeply regrettable death and injuries caused in Warrington yesterday lies squarely at the door of those in the British authorities who deliberately failed to act on precise and adequate warnings."[11]

So note that both events were definitely acknowledged Provisional IRA active service unit actions. Those not familiar with Red Action at the time may not know that they quite openly had friendly personal and political relations with the avowedly revolutionary socialist Irish INLA movement - and RA members were regularly nipping over to N. Ireland to openly socialise with INLA members (being regularly asked for their identities by Special Branch on these trips). But Red Action had NO relations WHATSOEVER with the Provos. Because INLA and the Provos spent a decade or more SHOOTING each other , as absolutely deadly political rivals ! - not co-operating partners on bombing missions ! There is no chance WHATSOEVER of a Red Action connection with the Provisional IRA Warrington atrocity - NONE. Special Branch will have known perfectly well who all the Red Action people were in the North West in 1993 -- and for the reasons I state, which SB were perfectly well aware of , will at the time have discounted any RA involvement - quite rightly.

 

[Toast Rider]

Yurts?

that should be "thought yurts"

 

[brogdale]

that should be "thought yurts"

Ah, right; not Mongolian fakers, then?

 

[tim]

Everything is fucking fucked. I just feel so sorry for my people who need a working-class electoral force.

Pardon my outburst.

Never trust anyone who uses the phrase "my people".

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Never trust anyone who uses the phrase "my people".

Unless it’s Dilated Peoples. Worst comes to worst...

 

[redcogs]

I hope see, because I don't see any of that. Instead it's just aggressive denial, shitposting and insta-blocking. There's no debate when the people you talk to just block you or smear you as being part of the right wing agenda.

Are you part of the right wing's agenda?

 

[danny la rouge]

Never trust anyone who uses the phrase "my people".

It's English irony.

 

[agricola]

It's English irony.

surely that would have been "my folk"?