DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
him and his massive tongue can stay in new orleans
jamie oliver in new orleans
- Thread starter johnnymarrsbars
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extra dry
Happy to be here
And you don't think that cooking is linked to social demograpics and race in the South (and beyond)?
The seeming premise of this programme is that Oliver goes to eat the food real 'native' americans eat in their home environs. Its nonsense to try and detach cuisine from its roots with that in mind, or to excuse Oliver's lack of action - he's there to comment and interact with the locals, not be a dispassionate observer.
The seeming premise of this programme is that Oliver goes to eat the food real 'native' americans eat in their home environs. Its nonsense to try and detach cuisine from its roots with that in mind, or to excuse Oliver's lack of action - he's there to comment and interact with the locals, not be a dispassionate observer.
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
The only time I've heard the N word used I was on a NY subway in Queen's, it was being used by a group of black youths who seemed to use it to describe anyone, black or white. On the same train I heard a white guy on the phone use it to describe himself as a "white N", is anyone really suggesting I should have remonstrated with said individuals about its use?
extra dry
Happy to be here
He should but wouldn't the program get bogged down with those issues coming up over and over again.
They need to draw a line and set defined goal for the production-direction of the series.
Otherwise you will start with a show based on food with a hint of social interaction going over to a social history documentary with a hint of cooking, throw in, between shots of Jamie running down the street hiding from mobs of heavily armed drunken rednecks. (which I know some people here would find very addictive viewing)
They need to draw a line and set defined goal for the production-direction of the series.
Otherwise you will start with a show based on food with a hint of social interaction going over to a social history documentary with a hint of cooking, throw in, between shots of Jamie running down the street hiding from mobs of heavily armed drunken rednecks. (which I know some people here would find very addictive viewing)
And that's applicable to this example in what way?
Oliver's presenting a tv programme that goes out to millions and he's specifically invited these numbnuts to comment. You're a nameless bod hearing some self-referential comments on the subway. There's a substantial difference in pretty much every way,
Oliver's presenting a tv programme that goes out to millions and he's specifically invited these numbnuts to comment. You're a nameless bod hearing some self-referential comments on the subway. There's a substantial difference in pretty much every way,
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
by saying nothing, he was tacitly agreeing
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
ah, but it is.
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
At the end of the day Jamie is making a food programme not a political one. He is a guest experiencing other people's cultures. If there was some great culinary experince enjoyed only by a group of facists and a programme was made about it, does the programme, about FOOD become less worthwhile for not challengung the political beliefs of the chefs?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
i just expected him to act like a decent human being and he didn't
ringo
Macaroni cheese controller
Can't agree with that. I don't challenge every shitty opinion I hear, who does?
I hear plenty rastas complaining about racism, then in the same sentence making homophobic comments.
I'm not suggesting racism and homophobia are the same but I used to try and pull people up about it but its not worth the effort. You can't change people's life-long and culturally engrained opinions in 5 minutes, especially when they're surrounded by their peers who all have the same opinion. It just ends in bad feeling between all involved.
Sometimes you just have to ignore it and know they're full of shit.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
fuck that, you've got to make a stand even if it makes for an awkward scene
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
I havn't seenthe clip. So I don't know the converstation that went on before hand. But tbh I'd probably bottle it and go
and WTF afterwards.Partly becuase I wouldn't know what the fuck to say. Partly becuase I'm not the most confident person challenging people, especially strangers. Partly becuase you can never really change these people's minds even if you do challenge them. Partly because I wouln't know how they would react.
I don't think it's particularly wussy to react in that way. I' ve also never really heard the term being used in that manner, apart from when black people are having a conversation between themselves, or in films or in music.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
i'm surprised that so many people on here claim to have never heard the word nigger used.
i heard it loads when i was younger.
i worked with a bunch of racist pricks and they'd deliberately tell racist jokes in my presence cos i always told them they were out of order.
i hated that job and i hated my colleagues, but i would never have put my head down and ignored the bigotry.
bigotry need to be challenged at all levels.
i heard it loads when i was younger.
i worked with a bunch of racist pricks and they'd deliberately tell racist jokes in my presence cos i always told them they were out of order.
i hated that job and i hated my colleagues, but i would never have put my head down and ignored the bigotry.
bigotry need to be challenged at all levels.
If you don't challenge people then how do things change? And who gives a shit how they react? Let's be brutal - Oliver was under no threat here, being surrounded by a film crew and facing some toothless, weedy redneck types. He's invited these people to speak on camera after all; he bears some responsibility for guiding discussion.
Actually this whole 'eyes down and pretend you didn't hear it' approach fucks me right off about Britain. Some people are lucky to get through life without facing racism and frothing racists - I'm not one of them sadly, having endless run-ins with knuckleheads as a youth and when running pubs - and maybe my tolerance is low. You don't give these people a platform to spout off, don't allow them to a chance to relate their racist tales without challenge, or it essentially legitimises those comments and fosters an atmosphere where they are accepted. It's pretty much the same reason why I don't let dunderheads start making jokey 'ghey' and 'nigger' complaints in my presence.
Sometimes it ends in confrontation - hell I've some scars and endless police visits to show off - but most of the time people skulk back under the wooodwork, apologise and say nothing again. And even if there is a mild confrontation I'd far rather have that than the sinking feeling that I'd been a coward, said nothing and let the whole unpleasantness continue unabated
Actually this whole 'eyes down and pretend you didn't hear it' approach fucks me right off about Britain. Some people are lucky to get through life without facing racism and frothing racists - I'm not one of them sadly, having endless run-ins with knuckleheads as a youth and when running pubs - and maybe my tolerance is low. You don't give these people a platform to spout off, don't allow them to a chance to relate their racist tales without challenge, or it essentially legitimises those comments and fosters an atmosphere where they are accepted. It's pretty much the same reason why I don't let dunderheads start making jokey 'ghey' and 'nigger' complaints in my presence.
Sometimes it ends in confrontation - hell I've some scars and endless police visits to show off - but most of the time people skulk back under the wooodwork, apologise and say nothing again. And even if there is a mild confrontation I'd far rather have that than the sinking feeling that I'd been a coward, said nothing and let the whole unpleasantness continue unabated
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
To be honest ghey, or gay, is a bit different. The meaning of that word has changed so much that I don't think anyone can lay claim to it.
Unpopluar view I know, but I stand by it.
Also, I'd rather not have the scars thanks. I'm quite happy with thinking "this person is an idiot".
Unpopluar view I know, but I stand by it.
Also, I'd rather not have the scars thanks. I'm quite happy with thinking "this person is an idiot".
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Chalk another one on your list. And I'm not just "claiming" it, I'm flat out telling you that I have never heard it used.
Like Oliver, I had a lower-middle-class upbringing in the Home Counties. Aside from anything else, there were no black kids in my primary school and about two black kids in my secondary school. That's probably why the word never crossed my path. There was a larger Asian population and I certainly heard horriblly offensive language used about them, if that's any consolation to you.
If I suddenly came across the word being used today, I'd probably freeze up too, out of sheer shock, to be honest. But I take tarannau's point -- I'm not fronting a television show which is recording and showing people using that kind of language. You do have a greater responsibility under those circumstances.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
Onket
Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]
How do you know what manner it was used in if you didn't see the clip?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
what scars?
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
From what was described in the thread I'm gathering it was a white dude saying "niggers this" and "niggers that" in a completley blaze fashion.
But like I said I'm guessing. And if it was like that I'd probably have behaved the way Oliver has been described.
I tried to look for a link on youtube. Couldn't find one. If anyone can, it would be much appreciated.
I think he's talking about my reference to scars tbh.
To be fair, the odd darkened knuckle and a slight scar on my face are small prices to pay. I suspect it'd have been more mortally wounding to my self respect had I let knobbers belittle my friends, family and me unchallenged.
I can't understand why you wouldn't pull up people when they say blatantly offensive things tbh - it fosters a shit atmosphere that allows racist nonsense to be accepted in 'polite' conversation and be tolerated. It's a cowardly cop out in my book
To be fair, the odd darkened knuckle and a slight scar on my face are small prices to pay. I suspect it'd have been more mortally wounding to my self respect had I let knobbers belittle my friends, family and me unchallenged.
I can't understand why you wouldn't pull up people when they say blatantly offensive things tbh - it fosters a shit atmosphere that allows racist nonsense to be accepted in 'polite' conversation and be tolerated. It's a cowardly cop out in my book
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
me neither, but you can't just back down and whimper later, that's just cowardice.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
You're right. I'm not brave enough. But I'm unlikely to change. Some people just arn't confident, it's not a personality fault, it's just a confidence issue.
One on one I'd cower. If I was like Jamie, with a whole camera and TV crew behind me I may act differently and be a little more brave. But then, we don't exacly know what type of person Jamie it. It could have been entirely in his personality to behave the way he did.
One on one I'd cower. If I was like Jamie, with a whole camera and TV crew behind me I may act differently and be a little more brave. But then, we don't exacly know what type of person Jamie it. It could have been entirely in his personality to behave the way he did.
Onket
Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]
I don't think anyone has described how it was used apart from me, here- http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9761770&postcount=45
Most of the time it's not going to be a fight though. Nobody's suggesting that you have to go in singlehanded like John Rambo against a group of torch-bearing Klan members. But if an average someone says something to you that riles then say what you feel - how else are unacceptable statements challenged?
I ran pubs for years in one of the most racist parts of London, with strong BNP/NF links, for years and I can still count the number of truly violent reactions on less than one hand. Most people knew they were being out of line and either fucked off, or minded their behaviour in future. Sometimes you need to take a stand for what you believe in.
I ran pubs for years in one of the most racist parts of London, with strong BNP/NF links, for years and I can still count the number of truly violent reactions on less than one hand. Most people knew they were being out of line and either fucked off, or minded their behaviour in future. Sometimes you need to take a stand for what you believe in.
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